Police violate warrant and kill Mayors two dogs in mistaken drug bust - Page 2

WickedLou9 · 08-12-2008, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

driving the wrong way on a one-way and speeding don't put anyone at risk if they're not around. so why are they illegal if nobody is around?

You are looking at it as a single occurance instead of as a system. If you permit that sort of behavior in a system, it will result in increased injuries and deaths.
Obviously, as with most things, there is a continum of behaviors from no risk to extreme risk. If I get up in the morning and walk to my car and kick a can out of my driveway, I am putting others at some increased degree of risk. Likewise if I get up in the morning and indiscriminately fire a machine gun up into the air for 5 minutes, I am also putting others at risk. In terms of degree of risk, the two events are not comparable.
The same is true for the behaviors you are talking about. It's also not as simple as saying "this behavior is too risky to others, ban it". YOu also have to take into account the utility of each behavior and measure it against the risks. Driving a car at 70mph on the highway every day is more risky than doing drugs, if you just go by statistics, but the utility of driving is so great that we accept the risks.
I am arguing that we have already drawn the proverbial line on the risk/utility continuum and that by all accounts, recreational drug use falls within the acceptable range, yet we continue to criminalize it. We allow people to smoke, drink alcohol, bungee jump, skydive, play paintball, etc. Yet most recreational drugs are illegal.

7960 · 08-12-2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

You are looking at it as a single occurance instead of as a system. If you permit that sort of behavior in a system, it will result in increased injuries and deaths.
Obviously, as with most things, there is a continum of behaviors from no risk to extreme risk. If I get up in the morning and walk to my car and kick a can out of my driveway, I am putting others at some increased degree of risk. Likewise if I get up in the morning and indiscriminately fire a machine gun up into the air for 5 minutes, I am also putting others at risk. In terms of degree of risk, the two events are not comparable.
The same is true for the behaviors you are talking about. It's also not as simple as saying "this behavior is too risky to others, ban it". YOu also have to take into account the utility of each behavior and measure it against the risks. Driving a car at 70mph on the highway every day is more risky than doing drugs, if you just go by statistics, but the utility of driving is so great that we accept the risks.
I am arguing that we have already drawn the proverbial line on the risk/utility continuum and that by all accounts, recreational drug use falls within the acceptable range, yet we continue to criminalize it. We allow people to smoke, drink alcohol, bungee jump, skydive, play paintball, etc. Yet most recreational drugs are illegal.

and you're ignoring what it took to get those drugs to the people who have them. sure some small percentage of them grew the weed themselves but the vast majority bought it from someone who bought it from someone who hurt or killed people in drug-related issues.

I just drove 2000 miles and listened to XM comedy the whole way. One of the interviews they played over and over was seth rogan talking about pineapple express. He said it's a comedy, but it's also serious, and it comes from his realization that he's only buying some pot but either the guy he bought it from or his supplier carries a machine gun and has killed people. You think his dealer is unique? Nope, he's just like every other one. So justify your belief all you want, but drugs are not a victimless crime.

WickedLou9 · 08-12-2008, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

and you're ignoring what it took to get those drugs to the people who have them. sure some small percentage of them grew the weed themselves but the vast majority bought it from someone who bought it from someone who hurt or killed people in drug-related issues.

I just drove 2000 miles and listened to XM comedy the whole way. One of the interviews they played over and over was seth rogan talking about pineapple express. He said it's a comedy, but it's also serious, and it comes from his realization that he's only buying some pot but either the guy he bought it from or his supplier carries a machine gun and has killed people. You think his dealer is unique? Nope, he's just like every other one. So justify your belief all you want, but drugs are not a victimless crime.

Alot of the problems you are talking about exist only because the drug trade is illegal. If drugs were legal, those supply problems would also go away. Farmers would be able to grow marijuana as a cash crop, controlled by the FDA and regulated.

Smull · 08-12-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

and you're ignoring what it took to get those drugs to the people who have them. sure some small percentage of them grew the weed themselves but the vast majority bought it from someone who bought it from someone who hurt or killed people in drug-related issues.

I just drove 2000 miles and listened to XM comedy the whole way. One of the interviews they played over and over was seth rogan talking about pineapple express. He said it's a comedy, but it's also serious, and it comes from his realization that he's only buying some pot but either the guy he bought it from or his supplier carries a machine gun and has killed people. You think his dealer is unique? Nope, he's just like every other one. So justify your belief all you want, but drugs are not a victimless crime.

This also happened during prohibition, but when it was repealed you saw the violence die down. Nobody is going to buy drugs alcohol or anything from a gang/criminal when they can go to a legitimate business and get it.

kombayn · 08-15-2008, 04:10 PM

^Exactly. But it's an extremely tough sell because people don't want to see a real drug-store in their community.

Smull · 08-15-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by kombayn

^Exactly. But it's an extremely tough sell because people don't want to see a real drug-store in their community.

Well then they'll have to settle for drug dealers and gangs in their community. Oh and tons of their tax dollars being wasted trying to stop them.

I seriously think its only a matter of time before drugs are legalized, particularly weed. The rational argument is there, its just people's mindsets which is holding it back.