US, Poland agree to missile defense deal

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

how did we help georgia get attacked? it's HURTING us, not helping us.

Our "friendship" and close ties with them got them attacked. At the least it was a contributing factor.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Smull

That doesn't make sense, just because the U.S. did it doesn't mean Russia can do it, NEITHER country should be invading other sovereign nations. What the fuck, why do so many people think that America is the antichrist for invading Iraq, but Russia is some benevolent liberating force.

I don't see Russia as some "benevolent liberating force." I see them responding to an attack. That's their decision and has nothing to do with the US.

Originally Posted by Smull

That choice was illegal, and resulted in the deaths of thousands. Just as the U.S. invading Iraq was "a choice". You don't seem to be so nonchalant about that "choice"

I have no problem saying Russia is wrong...what I have a problem with are people like BUSH and co. condemning them for doing the same shit we did.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Our "friendship" and close ties with them got them attacked. At the least it was a contributing factor.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

While as usual your argument is well thought, compelling and detailed...I am going to have to go ahead and pass on replying with much emphasis.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

While as usual your argument is well thought, compelling and detailed...I am going to have to go ahead and pass on replying with much emphasis.

it was actually staged by the bush administration in an attempt to make obama look bad

...... that makes even more sense!

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Russia already trying to talk tough again. They threatened Poland again, this time for taking this deal with our country. I hope Putin knows what he's doing because he can't expect to keep pushing our countries buttons, especially if McCain gets elected, he's the one with the short temper that'll tell Putin to "Go fuck himself and be prepared for the consequences."

I fear that you are actually serious. America can't do shit where Russia is concerned. You better get used to it.

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by 7960

how did we help georgia get attacked? it's HURTING us, not helping us.

While i dont agree that Georgia was "attacked", but the US had a big role in what unfolded. Them and Israel provided the weapons that gave the Georgians a self assured cockiness that lead to the invasion of SOuth Ossetia.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

While i dont agree that Georgia was "attacked", but the US had a big role in what unfolded. Them and Israel provided the weapons that gave the Georgians a self assured cockiness that lead to the invasion of SOuth Ossetia.

oh, oh!!

and we sent them seeds they used to grow wheat to make bread to feed their babies to grow into men so they could become soldiers!

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

oh, oh!!

and we sent them seeds they used to grow wheat to make bread to feed their babies to grow into men so they could become soldiers!

What do you think the US would do if Russia sent weapons to and soldiers to train Venezuela's armed forces? And we're not even in the middle of a civil war with them.

[C4Casey]

Er, Russia does send weapons and technical advice to Venezuela.

[Smull]

why shouldnt the U.S. be allowed to trade with any other country, even ones that happen to be next to Russia? Why should Russia have any say over what other sovereign nations do?

And the west and the U.S. clearly still has leverage against Russia, first and foremost this move will push their other neighbors like Poland and the Ukraine further towards the west. Russia also needs a friendly international community to carry on its international business. The U.S. and E.U. have plenty of ways to punish an aggressive and unfriendly Russia, and few of them involve guns and tanks.

[lew]

I think this whole defense deal is horrible.


It's going to play out like 1939 all over again.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

The former Eastern European countries need to show that they are willing to stand up to Russia again. Their people were prisoners of communist agression for 50 years and they won't stand for it happening again. Good for Poland.

Sadly, their people were prisoners for years because of 30% communist aggression, 70% Western (British and American) deals and agreements.

[Smull]

Originally Posted by lew

Sadly, their people were prisoners for years because of 30% communist aggression, 70% Western (British and American) deals and agreements.

How do you figure? I'm not saying its bullshit or anything I've just never heard that before, though i do find it hard to believe that the west carried more blame than the soviets. You happen to have an article/link that sums it up?

[lew]

Originally Posted by Smull

How do you figure? I'm not saying its bullshit or anything I've just never heard that before, though i do find it hard to believe that the west carried more blame than the soviets. You happen to have an article/link that sums it up?

It's not that the West carried 'more blame' than the Soviets.


To be sure, the Communists were butchers. They were worse than the Nazis, in many respects. They literally enslaved Eastern Europe.


However, my point was that, that couldn't have happened without the West's help. Britain and America turned Eastern Europe over to Stalin after WWII. Towards the end of the war, Roosevelt and Churchill, for whatever reason, were very accommodating to Stalin.


A very excellent book on this subject, that just came out, is

Amazon.com: Churchill, Hitler, and "The...
Amazon.com: Churchill, Hitler, and "The...

[Angus_Aboot]

Also, there is the Roosevelt Myth, a very good book by John T. Flynn about Roosevelt and his relationship with Stalin, I believe it was published in 1948.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by lew

However, my point was that, that couldn't have happened without the West's help. Britain and America turned Eastern Europe over to Stalin after WWII. Towards the end of the war, Roosevelt and Churchill, for whatever reason, were very accommodating to Stalin.

What would you have had them do? Risk another costly war with Stalin over Eastern Europe?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What do you think the US would do if Russia sent weapons to and soldiers to train Venezuela's armed forces? And we're not even in the middle of a civil war with them.

I'd guess we'd oppose it like we have been since THEY'RE ALREADY DOING IT.

Two Russian-made Su-30 jets arrived in Venezuela on Sunday and Caracas plans to purchase 24 of the fighter jets from Moscow this year, the military announced.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...03_279508.html

Chávez, who was also expected to sign contracts to purchase more than $1 billion worth of Russian arms, called for the two nations to become "strategic partners" to defend against what he called an American threat to his country.

Venezuela and Russia to coordinate on energy - International Herald Tribune

A proposed contract between Russia and Venezuela that could transfer thousands of sniper rifles to Venezuela has raised concern in the United States about the potential use or regional distribution of the weapons by the socialist-inspired government of President Hugo Chávez.

Russia selling new sniper rifles to Venezuela - International Herald Tribune

Caracas, March 11, 2005—Venezuelan Minister of Defense Gen. Jorge Carneiro signed a contract for 10 military helicopters—9 combat, 1 transport—with the Russian state-owned enterprise Rosoboronexport, yesterday. Signed at the Venezuelan Ministry of Defense, the US$120 million deal is the first step in a ‘declaration of intent’ that the two countries signed last November, which would bring 30 more helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov (AK-47) semi-automatic rifles to Venezuela.

Venezuela Signs Helicopter Deal with Russia, Boosts Border Security | venezuelanalysis.com

have you not been keeping up with your current events?

[lew]

Originally Posted by motivez

What would you have had them do? Risk another costly war with Stalin over Eastern Europe?

No, I would have rather them let Hitler go fight Stalin and have them annihilate each other.



Or, I would have kept England out of establishing secret agreements with France before WWI in the first place, which led to the war; which the aftermath of that was, of course, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini.


There were numerous things that Britain and America could have done to avoid a war which cost the world 55 million people, at the very least, and which led to half the European continent enslaved to Stalinism.


Tell me, do think it justified that England plunged into war against Germany to save a dictatorial Poland, yet refused to enter a war against Germany to defend a democratic Czechoslovakia just a few months before; and at the same time, just handed Poland over to Russia, who's dictator was even worse than Hitler, a couple of years later?