US, Poland agree to missile defense deal

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That was my point stupid. Way to grasp concepts.

your question was what would we do.

the answer is "not what russia is doing" but somehow you're saying I'm stupid even though you're saying we'd do what russia is doing?

push your boyfriends balls off your face before you type next time. it might help you understand everything that was typed.

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by lew

I think this whole defense deal is horrible.


It's going to play out like 1939 all over again.

Yeah well then......make sure we do our part and elect this total rookie circus clown and incompetent empty suit named Obama into the White House.

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What do you think the US would do if Russia sent weapons to and soldiers to train Venezuela's armed forces? And we're not even in the middle of a civil war with them.

Venezuela is currently buying military weaponry from Russia and...

http://www.newser.com/story/33106/ch...venezuela.html

[lew]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

Yeah well then......make sure we do our part and elect this total rookie circus clown and incompetent empty suit named Obama into the White House.

wat

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

Yeah well then......make sure we do our part and elect this total rookie circus clown and incompetent empty suit named Obama into the White House.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

your question was what would we do.

the answer is "not what russia is doing" but somehow you're saying I'm stupid even though you're saying we'd do what russia is doing?

push your boyfriends balls off your face before you type next time. it might help you understand everything that was typed.

What DO we do was the question. We act like complete assholes when someone else does something we don't like...yet we do things other people don't like and expect to be praised. Has nothing to do with "invading" anything. Concepts. IF you wanted to look at that further...Russian people want FREEDOM in Ossetia to join Russia. There are rebels fighting for that freedom to choose. I have no problem with Russia helping them gain their freedom to choose. IF the USA hadn't force fed Iraqi's their freedom, we could comment all we want...but alas...that wasn't the case.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

Venezuela is currently buying military weaponry from Russia and...

Chavez: I'd Welcome Russian Troops in Venezuela - World news | Newser: Know More. Search Less.

It was a rhetorical question because we KNOW what we do...we bitch, whine, moan and complain. IF we ever decided to invade Venezuela, I am sure we wouldn't ignore their close ties to Russia and I am sure we'd actually hold it against them.

[C4Casey]

The only way a war between Venezuela and the U.S happens is if Chavez wants one. And yeah, we have been being total dicks to Venezuela because he routinely expresses strong anti-American sentiments, funds and equips terrorists in Columbia, and is trying to destroy any domestic democratic opposition to his power.

[7960]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

we have been being total dicks to Venezuela because he routinely expresses strong anti-American sentiments

no, we've been dicks because he stole american businesses, equipment, inventory, and kicked US companies out of his country even though he signed a contract to allow them there.

[C4Casey]

Originally Posted by 7960

no, we've been dicks because he stole american businesses, equipment, inventory, and kicked US companies out of his country even though he signed a contract to allow them there.

Well yeah, and that.

[David Octavius]

Again...

Question: Is this treaty, which according to the article obliges us to come to their aid if attacked, something Bush is approving on his own (executive agreement), joint resolution or two-thirds approval of Senate?

I just want to know if this is something our government is involved in or are we at the will of just the President? I think its one of those important things to know if we value the republic like we say we do. I can't find the answer anywhere

[Smull]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Again...



I just want to know if this is something our government is involved in or are we at the will of just the President? I think its one of those important things to know if we value the republic like we say we do. I can't find the answer anywhere

Good question, I couldnt really find a concrete answer either, but I did fine this
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

The missile shield may still encounter resistance from U.S. lawmakers. Congress, controlled by Democrats, has mandated that the interceptors' effectiveness be proven through tests and that the Polish and Czech parliaments approve the deals before U.S. funding for the programs is approved, Boese said.
``We're still talking a number of years before any interceptors can actually be deployed, and in the meantime you're going to have a new administration that could rethink the whole plan,'' Boese said.

Since they mention that congress is a concern, I think we can infer that the Bush administration doesn't have complete control over the deal. Hope this helped.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Smull

Good question, I couldnt really find a concrete answer either, but I did fine this
Bloomberg.com: WorldwideSince they mention that congress is a concern, I think we can infer that the Bush administration doesn't have complete control over the deal. Hope this helped.

Yes it does, thanks. The Democrats mandating seems to imply they are involved in the approval process which is a good thing because if we have to depend on the congress to grow a spine and not fund a program that was already signed (and I mean any program that only Executive brokered and signed) we will be highly disappointed.

[David Octavius]

Poland signs missile shield deal with U.S. - CNN.com

The United States and Poland on Wednesday signed a formal agreement to base U.S. ballistic missiles on Polish soil, a move that has angered Russia and stoked regional tensions over the territorial conflict in Georgia.....

.....Without referring to Russia, the declaration notes that the U.S.-Poland relationship is governed by the NATO charter "which provides that an armed attack against one NATO country shall be considered an armed attack against them all."

So it looks like this was signed without ANY congressional approval, so we indebted ourselves in *yet* another nations politics without even proper representation - I bet the founders would think this is awesome!

[DosEquis]

jesus... have you guys ever played command and conquer? Its really pretty simple as to why we are doing it and why the russians don't agree.

Its about redundancy and volume. We know they have a ton of missiles and we know our system isn't perfect. To be more affective we need as many defense missiles as we can come up with and take shots at their offensive missiles at different stages when they are in route... just in case we miss and its one less missile our home base has to come up with. We have defense setup in the pacific, middle east, and now europe...and these defense bases are going to keep growing. We have it based on both land and warships, and the one that shot down the satellite was warship based.

It is upsetting the balance of M.A.D. the more we crank out.

Here is an MS Paint.

[Smull]

i like the use of Command and Conquer to explain geopolitics

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

jesus... have you guys ever played command and conquer? Its really pretty simple as to why we are doing it and why the russians don't agree.

Its about redundancy and volume. We know they have a ton of missiles and we know our system isn't perfect. To be more affective we need as many defense missiles as we can come up with and take shots at their offensive missiles at different stages when they are in route... just in case we miss and its one less missile our home base has to come up with. We have defense setup in the pacific, middle east, and now europe...and these defense bases are going to keep growing. We have it based on both land and warships, and the one that shot down the satellite was warship based.

It is upsetting the balance of M.A.D. the more we crank out.

Here is an MS Paint.

There is no possible way we could shoot down even 5% of the Russian missiles if they decided to launch them.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Poland signs missile shield deal with U.S. - CNN.com

So it looks like this was signed without ANY congressional approval, so we indebted ourselves in *yet* another nations politics without even proper representation - I bet the founders would think this is awesome!

Why wouldn't this fall under the Commander in Chief's responsibility of the Armed forces?

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by motivez

Why wouldn't this fall under the Commander in Chief's responsibility of the Armed forces?

Because its a treaty -

From the constitutional perspective treaties requires 2/3rds approval in the Senate in order for it to pass. Of course the constitution doesn't mean much these days so now its joint resolutions (a bare majority in both houses) or an "executive agreement" where it only takes the approval of the president.

The President is the commander in chief of the armed forces when called into ACTUAL service, he is not supreme commander at all times; this action is not within (or at least should not be) the congressional authorization he obtained to go to war. This defense shield is claimed to be about stopping Iranian missiles (even though we all know its about Russia), not about terrorism. If the Iranians are stupid enough to launch missiles its and act of war not terrorism. The President doesn't legally have that kind of prerogative.

But from a more practical perspective, do you want the person who controls the military to be the same person who has complete control over where he can deploy, make war, make alliances at his pleasure at all times (both war and peace)? It will suck us into more conflicts and drama, putting us into perpetual warfare and paranoia. I understand that war gives him more power and that he needs the flexibility to make agreements but this wholly different that the so called war on terrorism.