US, Poland agree to missile defense deal

[motivez]

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Poland and the United States reached an agreement Thursday that will see a battery of American missiles established inside Poland, the prime minister said, announcing a plan that has infuriated Russia and raised the specter of an escalation of tension with the region's communist-era master.

The deal, which Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said was to be signed later Thursday in Warsaw by Poland and the United States, includes what he called a "mutual commitment" between the two nations—beyond that of NATO—to come to each other's assistance in case of danger.

That was an obvious reference to the force and ferocity with which Russia rolled into Georgia in recent days, taking the key city of Gori and apparently burning and destroying Georgian military outposts and airfields.

Tusk said that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization would be too slow in coming to Poland's defense if Poland were threatened and that the bloc would take "days, weeks to start that machinery."

"Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later—it is no good when assistance comes to dead people. Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of—knock on wood—any possible conflict," Tusk said.

"This is a step toward real security for Poland in the future," he added.

A U.S. official in Washington said "it looks as if we're near agreement, and we hope to make a joint announcement today." The official spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of a formal announcement.

Tusk, speaking in a televised interview from the capital, said the United States agreed to Polish proposals that it help augment its defenses in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors.

Tusk said that the U.S. met the key Polish demands "concerning the permanent presence of Patriots, missiles that will be able to effectively protect our territory."

"The Americans have accepted these postulates," he said on TVN24, an all-news channel.

The deal was reached after more than 18 months of back-and-forth, often terse, negotiations.

___

Associated Press writer Foster Klug contributed to this report from Washington.

US, Poland agree to missile defense deal

Another article, from Bloomberg:

U.S., Poland Reach Agreement on Missile Defense (Update2)

By Katya Andrusz

Aug. 14 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. and Poland signed a preliminary accord today that will allow for 10 U.S. interceptor missiles to be based in the eastern European country, completing a defense system that Russia opposes.

The U.S. has agreed to Polish requests including modernization of its armed forces in exchange for the location of the missiles, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said in an interview with private broadcaster TVN24 this evening.

``We are now harvesting the fruit of many months of hard work,'' said Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski at a joint press conference with U.S. Undersecretary of State John Rood in Warsaw. ``Only people of ill intent should fear this agreement.''

Talks on locating part of the planned missile-defense shield on Polish territory made headway yesterday in the wake of the Georgian conflict.

The Russian incursion heightened Poland's security concerns and ``made the Polish government a little more willing to conclude a deal,'' said Wade Boese, research director at the Arms Control Association, a non-partisan group in Washington. ``It may also have made the Bush administration more willing to meet the Polish demands.''

White House View

In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the purpose of the system ``is to protect our European allies from any rogue threats such as a missile from Iran'' and ``in no way is the missile defense aimed at Russia.''

Perino said she ``couldn't say'' whether Russia's attacks in Georgia spurred today's final action on the agreement.

Poland and the U.S. have been holding talks on establishing an American base in Poland for more than 18 months. While the U.S. signed a final agreement last month with the Czech Republic on locating a radar base there, the Polish government held out for additional security assurances.

The Polish government said before the current round of missile defense talks that the Georgian conflict had underscored its arguments in favor of more security guarantees.

Sikorski confirmed that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had called off a visit to Warsaw, planned for next month. He said he had received the information before an agreement had been reached with Rood over missile defense and said he thought the Russian decision had been made ``in connection with Georgia.''

Russian Criticism

Russia has sharply criticized U.S. plans to place elements of the defense shield in the two former Soviet satellite states, saying they threatened its national security. The Russian government has repeatedly warned it would build up military defenses along its frontiers if the project went ahead.

Sikorski will talk to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice next week to find a date for signing a final contract, which also has to be ratified by the Polish parliament, he said today. If completed, the agreement will allow for the deployment of 10, two-stage missile interceptors made by Orbital Sciences Corp., based in Dulles, Virginia.

The missile shield may still encounter resistance from U.S. lawmakers. Congress, controlled by Democrats, has mandated that the interceptors' effectiveness be proven through tests and that the Polish and Czech Republic parliaments approve the deals before U.S. funding for the programs is approved, Boese said.

New President

``We're still talking a number of years before any interceptors can actually be deployed, and in the meantime you're going to have a new administration that could rethink the whole plan,'' Boese said.

The Pentagon wants to start construction in Poland by July next year in order to have an initial capability to defend against Iranian missiles by April 2012, according to U.S. Missile Defense Agency briefing charts.

According to Tusk, the U.S. agreed to initially station one battery of Patriot air defense missiles on Polish soil with potentially more to follow. This would be good news to Lockheed Martin Corp. and Raytheon Co., as the two companies are the top contractors on the Patriot missile program.

To contact the reporter on this story: Katya Andrusz in Warsaw at kandrusz@bloomberg.net

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

I think this is obviously a response to Russian actions in Georgia, and I think it's a good thing. We have to show Russia that they aren't going to be able to re-exert the kind of pressure and intimidation on countries in the region without some backlash from the international community and those countries allies in the west.

I expect this to anger Russia even more, but they are not in a position to tell us anything after their reckless invasion of Georgia proper.

I think it's a good thing for Poland, as the articles point out, this will help ensure their security and puts them on a path of being free to make decisions without the kind of intimidation typical of Moscow.

[Joe Castro]

Well the Russian response is coming. A base will soon be built in Cuba holding Nuclear bombers.

US hegemony is coming to an end.

Russia is right to respond to such antagoginism. As i said to you before, imagine it was 30 years ago and Canada declared a wish to join the Warsaw pact (Polands anti Russian behaviour is a modern day equivelant). You could expect the US would look to respond to such activity on its border. Russia cant be bought and bullied as it was under Yeltsin. We should all really stop pissing them and the Chinese off because soon they will be the masters and we (the US and UK) will be the ones beign bought and bullied.

[C4Casey]

Um... first off, we would never invade Canada under any circumstances, unless Canada actually attacked the U.S. Secondly, TEN missile interceptors in Poland will not do JACK SHIT against a Russian military that has HUNDREDS of ICBMS. Russia is blowing this issue way out of proportion. And finally, It's no fucking buisness of Russia's who Poland wants to be friends and allies with. It's not their country, and it's not their affair. And your comparison to Canada and Poland is laughable. Poland doesn't even border Russia, and alot of Poles HATE Russians. Why? Because they conquered their country and subjected them to 40 years of communist, totalitarian rule. The Canadian and American people are very friendly towards each other, and in some parts of Canada the culture there is practically identical to American culture.

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

Um... first off, we would never invade Canada under any circumstances, unless Canada actually attacked the U.S. Secondly, TEN missile interceptors in Poland will not do JACK SHIT against a Russian military that has HUNDREDS of ICBMS. Russia is blowing this issue way out of proportion. And finally, It's no fucking buisness of Russia's who Poland wants to be friends and allies with. It's not their country, and it's not their affair. And your comparison to Canada and Poland is laughable. Poland doesn't even border Russia, and alot of Poles HATE Russians. Why? Because they conquered their country and subjected them to 40 years of communist, totalitarian rule. The Canadian and American people are very friendly towards each other, and in some parts of Canada the culture there is practically identical to American culture.

You completely miss the point.

I am not saying Canada would want to join the Warsaw pact. I am dealing in a hypothetcal that shows the hypocrisy of the empire. Now i will repeat myself, now that i have spelled out that it is a hypothetical - IMAGINE Canada wanted to join the Warsaw pact. Imagine Canada then put a missile shield provided by the Soviet Union in its territory. Now try and tell me the US wouldn't respond similarlyu to Russia.

I hate to break it to you, but every word you said is completely and utterly irrelevant. Please read, contemplate and understand my words before responding, as they usual require thought, as i tend to deal in abstract and/or relatively complex ideas.

[Donkey®]

I am sure we'd be thrilled if Russia was fucking around in South America.

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I am sure we'd be thrilled if Russia was fucking around in South America.

Exactly so, an even more apt comparison than my Canada example.

[C4Casey]

Look. Would we be pissed at Canada? yes. Would we invade them and cut off supplies? No. Now, if Canada pointed nukes at us on the other hand, maybe. But we're not putting nukes in Poland, we're putting 10, TEN missile-interceptors. That does not put a dent into Russia's retalitory capability. They should be acting like our friend and ally, not our enemy of old. But Putin seems to favor aggression and intimidation over diplomacy.

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

Look. Would we be pissed at Canada? yes. Would we invade them and cut off supplies? No. Now, if Canada pointed nukes at us on the other hand, maybe. But we're not putting nukes in Poland, we're putting 10, TEN missile-interceptors. That does not put a dent into Russia's retalitory capability. They should be acting like our friend and ally, not our enemy of old. But Putin seems to favor aggression and intimidation over diplomacy.

Well all you have to do is look at the US response to the story that Russia may start running military flights that re-fuel in Cuba. This should be of much less concern than a missile shield but the US response has been to spit the dummy and cry foul.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I am sure we'd be thrilled if Russia was fucking around in South America.

Countries should be free to form their own alliances as they see fit.

[Stylerod]

The former Eastern European countries need to show that they are willing to stand up to Russia again. Their people were prisoners of communist agression for 50 years and they won't stand for it happening again. Good for Poland.

[C4Casey]

This should be of much less concern than a missile shield but the US response has been to spit the dummy and cry foul.

Far less concern? As I've said before, we are only placinf 10 missile interceptors in Poland. This poses absolutely no threat to Russia, since they have hundreds of ICBMs and thousands of smaller missiles capable of hitting Europe. The reason we're placing the missile shield in Poland is because its location makes it ideal for intercepting Iranian missiles. Russia wants to put nuclear bombers in Cuba. The only reason to do that would be to make it easier to bomb the U.S. Last time the Russians put nukes in Cuba, it almost resulted in nuclear armagedon. I fail to see why you reason putting nuclear bombers in Cuba is less significant than placing ten missile interceptors in Poland.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by motivez

Countries should be free to form their own alliances as they see fit.

Tell that to the "Axis of Evil" members.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

The reason we're placing the missile shield in Poland is because its location makes it ideal for intercepting Iranian missiles.

Iran is threatening to fire missiles at Poland?

[David Octavius]

Question: Is this treaty, which according to the article obliges us to come to their aid if attacked, something Bush is approving on his own (executive agreement), joint resolution or two-thirds approval of Senate?

[Joe Castro]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

This should be of much less concern than a missile shield but the US response has been to spit the dummy and cry foul.

Far less concern? As I've said before, we are only placinf 10 missile interceptors in Poland. This poses absolutely no threat to Russia, since they have hundreds of ICBMs and thousands of smaller missiles capable of hitting Europe. The reason we're placing the missile shield in Poland is because its location makes it ideal for intercepting Iranian missiles. Russia wants to put nuclear bombers in Cuba. The only reason to do that would be to make it easier to bomb the U.S. Last time the Russians put nukes in Cuba, it almost resulted in nuclear armagedon. I fail to see why you reason putting nuclear bombers in Cuba is less significant than placing ten missile interceptors in Poland.

They are not placing them as such. They are just conducting flights with nuclear capable bombers and they may re-fuel in Cuba. This is just part of their nuclear detterent system. Given that the US is the most likely to ever use nukes on Russia it is wise to have plans o deter andf strike back.

And you keep saying Russia has nukes, but no one wants to use them. As the missile shield reduces Russi's defence capabilities it pushes them closer to the position of having to use nukes, which no one really wants.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

They are not placing them as such. They are just conducting flights with nuclear capable bombers and they may re-fuel in Cuba. This is just part of their nuclear detterent system. Given that the US is the most likely to ever use nukes on Russia it is wise to have plans o deter andf strike back.

And you keep saying Russia has nukes, but no one wants to use them. As the missile shield reduces Russi's defence capabilities it pushes them closer to the position of having to use nukes, which no one really wants.

The shield has no affect on Russias capabilities. The shield is meant to strike down a rouge single missle launch. A barrage of missles from Russia would easily overwhelm the missle defense shield. Everyone knows this including Russia.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

The reason we're placing the missile shield in Poland is because its location makes it ideal for intercepting Iranian missiles.

wat


Iranian missiles suck if they miss Israel by that much.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

The shield has no affect on Russias capabilities. The shield is meant to strike down a rouge single missle launch. A barrage of missles from Russia would easily overwhelm the missle defense shield. Everyone knows this including Russia.

So why do they have to be in Poland if we have enough land in Germany to make our own country? Why not just put these missiles there?

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Donkey®