US worries Russia returning to authoritarian past

Dispatcher · 08-17-2008, 02:38 PM

Duh, ya think? How many advisers and think tanks did it take to figure that one out?

Schrödinger's Cat · 08-17-2008, 03:46 PM

Returning?

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 02:42 PM

Oh the hypocrisy. The country that gave the world Guantanamo bay is suddenly worried about authoritarianism.

Phantom · 08-18-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

Oh the hypocrisy. The country that gave the world Guantanamo bay is suddenly worried about authoritarianism.

I thought it was ok to invade a neighboring country to overturn a brutal dictator?

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

I thought it was ok to invade a neighboring country to overturn a brutal dictator?

EH ? Relevance ?

Phantom · 08-18-2008, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

EH ? Relevance ?

You celebrate the actions of the Russians in Georgia. Wasn't the US doing more or less the same thing to overturn Castro after Castro took over and slaughtered anyone associated with dissent?

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

You celebrate the actions of the Russians in Georgia. Wasn't the US doing more or less the same thing to overturn Castro after Castro took over and slaughtered anyone associated with dissent?

Again i ask for the relevence ? What does that have to do with me mentioning Guantanamo as evidence of US authoritarianism ? Absolutely nothing. What i said has nothing to do with dictatorships or invasions.

Phantom · 08-18-2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

Again i ask for the relevence ? What does that have to do with me mentioning Guantanamo as evidence of US authoritarianism ? Absolutely nothing. What i said has nothing to do with dictatorships or invasions.

pot kettle black ?

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

pot kettle black ?

lol. Please explain, you seem to be totally confused. Once more, Guantanamo Bay has nothing to do with dictatorship or invasions. It is a concentration camp, no more, no less.

Phantom · 08-18-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

lol. Please explain, you seem to be totally confused. Once more, Guantanamo Bay has nothing to do with dictatorship or invasions. It is a concentration camp, no more, no less.

I was confused, sorry.

C4Casey · 08-18-2008, 06:49 PM

We treat the prisoners in Guantamino better than American prisoners in our own cells. And for the record, we only harbor the absolute worst terrorists in Guantamino. They routinely threaten thier captors with death, throw feces at them, attempt to bite them when they're given food, and when we do release them...we find them again on the battlefield! And the lawyers these scum use are no better. Military members must cover up their name tags and never refer to their comrades by name. The terrorists often use their lawyers as an outside means of threatening their captors' families.

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by C4Casey

We treat the prisoners in Guantamino better than American prisoners in our own cells. And for the record, we only harbor the absolute worst terrorists in Guantamino. They routinely threaten thier captors with death, throw feces at them, attempt to bite them when they're given food, and when we do release them...we find them again on the battlefield! And the lawyers these scum use are no better. Military members must cover up their name tags and never refer to their comrades by name. The terrorists often use their lawyers as an outside means of threatening their captors' families.

What happened to inocent until proven guilty ? If they are all the things you say they are you would have them on trial, not being held indefinately. The British citizens your corrupt regime held were not terrorists. It's just a shame that years of their life were stolen before the idiots in Washington could grasp this.

C4Casey · 08-18-2008, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

What happened to inocent until proven guilty ? If they are all the things you say they are you would have them on trial, not being held indefinately. The British citizens your corrupt regime held were not terrorists. It's just a shame that years of their life were stolen before the idiots in Washington could grasp this.

Because this is fucking war. They're not being held there because they are criminals. They are being held there because they are enemy combatants. And in war, you keep enemy combatants prisoners until you are satisfied that they pose no threat to your country once you release them (i.e: the war ends) All we are required to do is treat them humanely and give them food, shelter, cloathing, and medical assistance - which we do. Of course, if the extremists we were fighting actually kept American prisoners alive and well instead of executing them on the spot (or torturing them and then executing them in front of a cam-corder), then they might've been able to get away with some sort of prisoner exchange. But I guess it's only bad if the U.S violates the Geneva Convention. No one says boo when our troops are murdered in captivity by the enemy.

Joe Castro · 08-18-2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by C4Casey

Because this is fucking war. They're not being held there because they are criminals. They are being held there because they are enemy combatants. And in war, you keep enemy combatants prisoners until you are satisfied that they pose no threat to your country once you release them (i.e: the war ends) All we are required to do is treat them humanely and give them food, shelter, cloathing, and medical assistance - which we do. Of course, if the extremists we were fighting actually kept American prisoners alive and well instead of executing them on the spot (or torturing them and then executing them in front of a cam-corder), then they might've been able to get away with some sort of prisoner exchange. But I guess it's only bad if the U.S violates the Geneva Convention. No one says boo when our troops are murdered in captivity by the enemy.

Thats because your troops are by definition guilty. They are tools of imperialism. AL Qaeda members dont have a uniform, they don't carry some kind of AQ identity card. For all we know you are just lifting completely people at random - the British boys were no terrorists. This we know is not the case of any US prisoners that may be taken.

David Octavius · 08-18-2008, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by C4Casey

We treat the prisoners in Guantamino better than American prisoners in our own cells. And for the record, we only harbor the absolute worst terrorists in Guantamino. They routinely threaten thier captors with death, throw feces at them, attempt to bite them when they're given food, and when we do release them...we find them again on the battlefield! And the lawyers these scum use are no better. Military members must cover up their name tags and never refer to their comrades by name. The terrorists often use their lawyers as an outside means of threatening their captors' families.

Do you have proof from *reputable* sources (national enquirer doesn't count) to back these claims? And I am not talking about "Well this one time this prisoner tried to bite this guard so that means all of the prisoners are like that", I mean documented proof that this is a trend. Also where is the proof that we treat them better than our own prisoners? With our sue happy system I doubt that very much.

I have no doubt that the guards there are just doing their job and want to protect us from the real bad guys, and the REAL bad guys need to be punished severely for what they've done - but don't try to justify the actions of our government by trying to paint every prisoner there as subhuman, it undermines your argument.

6SpeedTA95 · 08-18-2008, 09:23 PM

We should have been worried about this 7 years ago, but Bush met with "Putin" and lets not forget, he's a good man.

C4Casey · 08-18-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Do you have proof from *reputable* sources (national enquirer doesn't count) to back these claims? And I am not talking about "Well this one time this prisoner tried to bite this guard so that means all of the prisoners are like that", I mean documented proof that this is a trend. Also where is the proof that we treat them better than our own prisoners? With our sue happy system I doubt that very much.

I have no doubt that the guards there are just doing their job and want to protect us from the real bad guys, and the REAL bad guys need to be punished severely for what they've done - but don't try to justify the actions of our government by trying to paint every prisoner there as subhuman, it undermines your argument.

I've talked to guys who work there, my aero professor being one. He spent a whole class talking about all the precautions he had to take while dealing with the prisoners. Forgive me if I paint them as subhuman, but alot of them are.

As for the claim about treatment of our own prisoners, I can't remember where I read it but I'll try to find an electronic article about the state of U.S prisons.

Guantanamo: Detainee assaults commander with feces - Boston.com

C4Casey · 08-19-2008, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by joe castro

thats because your troops are by definition guilty. They are tools of imperialism. Al qaeda members dont have a uniform, they don't carry some kind of aq identity card. For all we know you are just lifting completely people at random - the british boys were no terrorists. This we know is not the case of any us prisoners that may be taken.

Are you FUCKING serious, you FUCKING ASSHOLE! Did you just seriously legitimize the TORTURE and SLAUGHTER of american PRISONERS, after critisizing our "illegal" treatment of terrorist prisoners! FUCK YOU, you FUCKING HYPOCRITE!

Joe Castro · 08-19-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by C4Casey

Are you FUCKING serious, you FUCKING ASSHOLE! Did you just seriously legitimize the TORTURE and SLAUGHTER of american PRISONERS, after critisizing our "illegal" treatment of terrorist prisoners! FUCK YOU, you FUCKING HYPOCRITE!

Now now.

I was referring to your comment about troops being killed in captivity. That is justified if you accept the death penalty as punishment for bringing death and war, i personally do not.

What i was saying is they do not need trials. The mere fact they are imperialist troops in an invaded country makes them guilty by defenition. That is where they differ from those in guantanamo, as we do not know simply on appearance whether they are who the powers that be claim they are.

As a side point i do not know anything about legalities, that is not an argumjent i did or would make. I am not a lawyer and the law is not of major importance to me. What is important is right and wrong, something not always adeqquately determined by law.

Now calm down and actually read and understand what is being said before you launch into your next foul mouthed tirade.

C4Casey · 08-19-2008, 06:00 PM

Well sorry, but when I say troops are being brutally murdered by their captors in Iraq, and then you say they are already guilty, then that implies that they get a pass on how they treat their prisoners. Since I have several close friends in the desert as I speak, that is a very touchy subject for me.