A federal judge in Vermont has ruled that prosecutors can't force a criminal defendant accused of having illegal images on his hard drive to divulge his PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) passphrase. U.S. Magistrate Judge Jerome Niedermeier ruled that a man charged with transporting child pornography on his laptop across the ...
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| | #1 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Should prosecutors be able to compel you to reveal an encryption password?
An older article, but it popped up on Slashdot today. What do you guys think? I don't think they should be able to compel that type of testimony, since it's effectively forcing someone to give incriminate themselves. I think the legal wrangling of saying the password in and of itself isn't incriminating is bullshit, since it's obvious that it's still providing police with what they'd need to potentially convict someone.. which is no different than someone revealing the location of some other incriminating evidence IMO. Any legal eagles here want to weigh in? | ||||
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| | #2 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| They don't need him to give up the password to get access to his drive, as there are ways around passwords especially if you have the physical disk. I would request the password from him and if he refused, I would just note his level of cooperating in the sentencing. | ||||
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| | #3 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by DosEquis Uh, there's not ways around full disk encryption except for decryption, and as noticed in the article, that can take many years depending on the strength of the password..
From my thread on TrueCrypt: TrueCrypt releases version 6.0
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| | #4 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey ![]() ![]() ![]()
| The 5th ammendment agrees with this ruling. | ||||
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| | #5 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by motivez No.
But I'm surprised by this: Prosecutors tend to view PGP passphrases as akin to someone possessing a key to a safe filled with incriminating documents. That person can, in general, be legally compelled to hand over the key. I didn't know they could compel you to give them a key | ||||
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| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
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| | #7 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by 7960 Handing over a physical piece of evidance is one thing, but what if it was a combination? They can't make you talk. What if you simply refuse?
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| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
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| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| | #10 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by motivez :Orly:
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| | #11 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by motivez it depends on the analogy. if it's a key to a lock then you have to provide it or be in contempt. if it's incriminating testimony then you don't have to and they can't. So, my opinion:
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| | #12 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ ![]() ![]()
| If they obtain a warrant to search your laptop then you would be required to provide them with access to it and give them the key if necessary the same as if they had a warrant to search any other piece of your property.
__________________ No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair. Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid: As we look back in history, the Founding Fathers would be cringing to hear people talking about eliminating earmarks. | ||||
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| | #13 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by 7960 It can't be the same as a 'key to a lock' because it would require them to disclose the contents of their mind, as the article says.. They've memorized the password, it's different than a physical object such as a key.
I mean, I hate to make this analogy because it's one used with someone who's actually guilty.. but they can't force someone they suspect of murder to tell them the location of the body.. because that knowledge is inside their head. | ||||
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| | #14 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| I disagree, like I said in my previous post.. it's the contents of your mind, not a physical object. | ||||
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| | #15 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ ![]() ![]()
| I've been thinking about it some more and I've been starting switch my opinion. This would be like someone writing a diary in code and the police asking for the key to read it. In that case I'm not too sure the government should be able to have you give it to them. | ||||
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| | #16 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by motivez and that's why I think this was a right decision.
but it's also why I think there's going to be legislation to require a way for the feds to get past encryption. | ||||
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| | #17 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist ![]() ![]()
| this is no different than being required to give the name of your accomplice or (as motivez said) give the location of the body. an encryption key is knowledge, they can't (and shouldn't be able to) compel incriminating knowledge. | ||||
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| | #18 |
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey ![]() |