Why John McCain's PoW buddy wont be voting for him

[motivez]

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
by Phillip Butler

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case - new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

About Phillip Butler

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals.

After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain

I think this is an important article, mainly because it's not coming from a traditional political speaker, but rather someone who has had a personal relationship with the man that spans decades..

I think the most important thing that comes out of this article is that another person who went through more than McCain did as a PoW is talking about the way he's exploited his service for political gain, and that it's really shameful and disrespectful to the other people who were there with him.

People are afraid to say that, but I think as time goes on, it's becoming more and more acceptable to call when McCain uses his PoW as some kind of wildcard response to avoid criticism or actually answering a question.

I think the second most important thing is that McCain should scare the hell out of anyone because of his temper. Do we really want some hothead known for losing his temper to have his finger on the button?

A President can be a lot of things, like an adulterer, and it doesn't truly matter all that much, but a hothead is downright dangerous.

[Stylerod]

Yeah, McCain is going to go on a tangent because of his temper and just push some magic thing everyone calls "the button".

It was a good article though. It points out a prankster college kid who might not have even wanted to be there but was because of family obligations who became a bomber pilot, served his time as a POW and refused early release by just talking bad about our country. Hell, Democrats don't even need to be tourtured to talk bad about our country now. They do it every day!

[WickedLou9]

This is just like that swift boat bullshit from 2004.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

This is just like that swift boat bullshit from 2004.

.


but keep forwarding it on, cuz we should all vote according to what some veteran says

[DosEquis]

So that leaves John McCain in quite the position. John Kerry couldn't figure out how to respond to those types of attacks. I wonder how John McCain is going to approach this. Leaving it alone was obviously a big problem for Kerry.

On a side note, McCain using his POW as an excuse for everything is degrading himself and it will soon be a punch line. Every speech of his will start with "My friends, I was a POW my friends and my friend barack obama doesn't have the experience our friend joe biden has." If he uses POW like Rudy used 9/11 its going to significatly reduce its affectiveness.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the most important thing that comes out of this article is

and I think the most important thing to come from the article was how bitter, even jealous it seems, that guy is.

honestly, he needs some therapy.

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

On a side note, McCain using his POW as an excuse for everything is degrading himself and it will soon be a punch line. Every speech of his will start with "My friends, I was a POW my friends and my friend barack obama doesn't have the experience our friend joe biden has." If he uses POW like Rudy used 9/11 its going to significatly reduce its affectiveness.

That's actually a pretty good point. He should just let that part of his record speak for itself. Everyone know he was in vietnam and did what he did. To constanlty remind us makes him look like that's "all" he has to offer. Not a wise stategy.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

This is just like that swift boat bullshit from 2004.

This isn't some organized campaign or anything like swift boat bullshit.. this is one guy who's known McCain for a long time, was a PoW along side him, and can really speak to his character.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

and I think the most important thing to come from the article was how bitter, even jealous it seems, that guy is.

honestly, he needs some therapy.

I don't think he sounds bitter or jealous at all, more like frustrated at McCain's misuse of his time as a PoW for political gain.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

.


but keep forwarding it on, cuz we should all vote according to what some veteran says

We should certainly use what some long time acquaintance can tell us about the character of the person to make a judgment about that person.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think he sounds bitter or jealous at all, more like frustrated at McCain's misuse of his time as a PoW for political gain.

1, 2, and 4 sound pretty pussyhurt to me.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

We should certainly use what some long time acquaintance can tell us about the character of the person to make a judgment about that person.

if what he says about his character was true, people don't change in 40 years?

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by 7960

if what he says about his character was true, people don't change in 40 years?

The only bad things he had to say was when he was in college. And he finishes with this.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man

But the writer is a Democrat and doesn't agree with McCains politics. That seems to be the gist of it.

[motivez]

He's said he's a good man, and I think he is as well. He just has deficiencies in his character that will prevent him (and me, and many others) from voting for him.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by motivez

He's said he's a good man, and I think he is as well. He just has deficiencies in his character that will prevent him (and me, and many others) from voting for him.

NO, him not being a democrat will keep you from voting for him.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

NO, him not being a democrat will keep you from voting for him.

I don't vote a straight party ticket. The policies McCain promises to continue and the deficiencies in his character are what will prevent me from voting for him.

If he was the John McCain of 2000, that was trying to take the party in a more reasonable direction, that didn't put up with intolerance from bigots like Falwell, etc.. I'd be much more apt to vote for him.

But, like I said. He traded in his maverick badge for a rubber stamp a long time ago.

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't vote a straight party ticket. The policies McCain promises to continue and the deficiencies in his character are what will prevent me from voting for him.

If he was the John McCain of 2000, that was trying to take the party in a more reasonable direction, that didn't put up with intolerance from bigots like Falwell, etc.. I'd be much more apt to vote for him.

But, like I said. He traded in his maverick badge for a rubber stamp a long time ago.

What's always amazed me is that republicans have to be mavericks and reach across the isle to be acceptable to democracts. When's the last time a democrat bragged about being a maverick and reaching accross the isle as part of their platform? That's just so stupid to me. Because no matter how far a republican "reaches" they will still not go far enough.

I really don't know why they even try. It would be smarter to just go to the conservative side of things.

[TankRizzo]

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

What's always amazed me is that republicans have to be mavericks and reach across the isle to be acceptable to democracts. When's the last time a democrat bragged about being a maverick and reaching accross the isle as part of their platform? That's just so stupid to me. Because no matter how far a republican "reaches" they will still not go far enough.

I really don't know why they even try. It would be smarter to just go to the conservative side of things.

Lieberman has and they're pretty much ready to exile him from the party