Limbaugh: Obama a "classic case of affirmative action rearing it's ugly head"

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Revenue goes down temporarily, then as economic growth takes place the tax revenues start to grow with it. Economic growth is going to take place almost regardless of tax levels. The economy grew during the clinton administration when capital gains was significantly higher. People do not stop investing and put their money in matresses.

I think the internet boom had a lot to do with the economy being good under clinton even with the high capital gaines taxes. But a higher capital gains tax, espeically the 35% that Obama is talking about will stifle investments.

Its about a baseline or something to measure yourself against in order to avoid the problem we have now, which is waste. We would never go at Russia or China alone 1v1. China spends 100 billion, we spend 500 billion. They can give us a run for our money on 20% of the budget. Same goes for Russia.

We could run over russia, China is a different matter. but it's funny how neither of them directly attack us isn't it? They both don't like us very much and I'm sure would want us to go communist and/or socialist but they don't. Why? Because we'd clean their clocks that's why. It also wouldn't be smart on the world stage for them to do that.

Well democrats had control of congress for 40 years. Up until 1980 of those 40 years our debt was being paid for and any programs we had were "pay as we go". The label "tax and spend" liberal is an accurate description, and I look at it as a measure of fiscal accountability. There is nothing financially responsible about reducing our income and then continuing to spend well in to the red. Ronald Reagan's arms race with the Soviets...that were going to collapse anyway...started the budget problems. GWHB continued it. During Bill Clintons admin we added about 1 trillion. GWB will have added about 4 trillion by the time he leaves.

For the most part that's true. But I doin't advocate all of Reagan's or Bush's policies. I do happen to think it was smart to do the arms race with the soviets. But anyway, if the government used it's money more responsibly, like they tell us to do, they wouldn't be taking so much from us year after year.

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I think our government is doing all it can to protect us too, I just think the WAY they are doing it is incorrect. Not so much that its a conservative (or liberal) slant, but that the important decisions are being made by a small group of people who think alike making the probability or error very large. Hence all the mistakes the Bush administration made and that another can also make if they try to seal off all dissent and alternative thinking.

I can't really argue with that. The whole "stay the course" thing was stupid. Bush should've went back and looked at how Patton and McCarther did it and told his generals to model after them.

But that would've happen with any president I think.

BTW, I think we've gotten a bit off topic. We're discussing political theory and stances, not Obama's advancement through the political system.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

I can't really argue with that. The whole "stay the course" thing was stupid. Bush should've went back and looked at how Patton and McCarther did it and told his generals to model after them.

But that would've happen with any president I think.

BTW, I think we've gotten a bit off topic. We're discussing political theory and stances, not Obama's advancement through the political system.

Understandable but one point I want to make - I agree that any president would of made the same mistakes in the conduct of the war after the invasion, egos are powerful things but not all presidents would of went to war in Iraq in the first place. That's where he blundered uniquely in my book - and where he shows how flawed his judgment are.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

A lot of people didn't want Hillary because of all the baggage she brought with her. They wanted something different after these horrible last 8 years of Bush and such partisan fighting.. they wanted someone they saw as being able to bring people together and change the way things work

Get a younger, intelligent white guy with the same ability to give a great speech that inspires people to get behind his cause, and I think they could have defeated Hillary just like Obama did

Obviously race played a role, all you have to do is look at the exit polls of African Americans that overwhelmingly voted for Obama to see that something extraordinary was happening.. but the idea that it was the only reason he's here, like Stylerod, Rush Limbaugh, and probably some other Republicans want to suggest.. is a massive insult to him and every other successful black person.

Pulling back from mid thread I think motz hit the nail on the head here with this post. Obama definitely got the black vote and that without a doubt helped him. But Hillary also had a good number of women turn out to vote for her. We could argue she only got as far as she did because she's a woman and she's married to Bill Clinton. We could argue McCain only got as far as he did because of his POW experience. We could make a running list of qualities (ethinicity, gender, background, etc) for just about every major politician. There is a reason certain people stand out from the crowd and without a doubt that helps them in their political careers.

That said, and back on topic to Rush... I think he's an idiot for saying what he said. However, he was only parroting what other people have said in the past including leading Democrats like Bill Clinton. It doesn't excuse what he said, but it's also nothing new.

[northhunter]

Wasn't it Geraldine Ferraro who had to drop out of the Hillary campaign for saying basically the same thing Rush said? I don't picture her as a big racist, but she got thrown under the bus pretty quick when she said it. Something like a white man with his lack of experience would never get elected if I remember right.
I picture a few years down the road when the emotions have cooled a bit any thinking person would say of course Obama's race was a huge factor in his winning the nomination.

[Donkey®]

I love how Obama is getting railed about having no experience when I have sat and watched plenty of Presidents with all this grand experience do shitty jobs as President. He's a change from the norm...I think people want that.

[7960]

Originally Posted by northhunter

Wasn't it Geraldine Ferraro who had to drop out of the Hillary campaign for saying basically the same thing Rush said?

yep.

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I love how Obama is getting railed about having no experience when I have sat and watched plenty of Presidents with all this grand experience do shitty jobs as President. He's a change from the norm...I think people want that.

The firs question is who do you think was a good president in recent years.

Second, change from what to what? We still don't know and where at the conventions.

Third, (as I mentioned earlier) would you want someone with his experience running your bank or health insurance company if you were on the board of directors? Just because he wanted to inact change?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

Not. He does not write the majority of his speeches and does not do well at all without something pre-written. He's alos not running the campaign. He's hired people to do that for him. He did pick people that have done a good job. But he also picked friends like William Ares, Tony Resco and Rev Wright. So what does that tell us about his judgement?

Really? So, the executive branch is nothing like being at the head of a campaign?

Appointing competent people to positions where they'll lead and manage a specific aspect of the campaign is nothing like appointing competent people to positions where they'll manage a specific aspect of the government?

There has been a lot of reporting on how amazing Obama's ground game is. How well organized his campaign is. How disciplined they've been. How well he's been taking advantage of technology to bring people into the campaign, and get his message out. And so on and so forth.

There's not been any evidence of any impropriety on the part of Obama with his relation to Rezko, and he's denounced time and time again what Ares did when he was 8 years old. So, you bringing them up is just a cheap way to avoid talking about his management capabilities.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by northhunter

Wasn't it Geraldine Ferraro who had to drop out of the Hillary campaign for saying basically the same thing Rush said? I don't picture her as a big racist, but she got thrown under the bus pretty quick when she said it. Something like a white man with his lack of experience would never get elected if I remember right.
I picture a few years down the road when the emotions have cooled a bit any thinking person would say of course Obama's race was a huge factor in his winning the nomination.

No one can deny that his race is a factor. But saying he's where he is ONLY because of his race is racism, pure and simple.

It discounts all the hard work he's put into his education and careers, and everything, and says everyone has essentially given him a leg up when he didn't deserve it.. Those people are jealous of his accomplishments if nothing else.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

McCain wasn't the one trying to relate to a bunch of Iowa dirt farmers by complaining about the price of arugula though. For a guy who recently got done paying off his student loans, he sure forgot what being poor was like awful quickly

The point is that you can't really call him elitist and out of touch when he has much more humble origins and it's only been very recently that he's experienced the kind of success he now enjoys.

McCain on the other hand married a rich woman and has dozens of butlers, and so on and so forth. If you want to talk about who lives like the majority of Americans, it's Obama. Not McCain.

[Swift-Bass]

Originally Posted by motivez

There's not been any evidence of any impropriety on the part of Obama with his relation to Rezko, and he's denounced time and time again what Ares did when he was 8 years old. So, you bringing them up is just a cheap way to avoid talking about his management capabilities.

I'll get to the rest later. But Ares was convicted and is STILL an unrepentent terrorist. He became Friends with Obama when this was well known. From what I've read, Ares actually helped get his career started in Chicago. Why would he become friends with a terrorist? So yes, that and the rev Wright sitiation make me seriously question his personal judgment.

[Scrum]

You know, if Ayers would just repent all this wouldn't be a problem for Obama.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Scrum

You know, if Ayers would just repent all this wouldn't be a problem for Obama.

But since he won't, it is.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

But since he won't, it is.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

The firs question is who do you think was a good president in recent years.

nobody.

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

Second, change from what to what? We still don't know and where at the conventions.

Change from the old Washington good ol boys club to people who aren't part of that clique.

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

Third, (as I mentioned earlier) would you want someone with his experience running your bank or health insurance company if you were on the board of directors? Just because he wanted to inact change?

Their experience does not matter because they were brought in to do a job. If they can't do that job, then they'll be removed.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

No one can deny that his race is a factor. But saying he's where he is ONLY because of his race is racism, pure and simple.

It discounts all the hard work he's put into his education and careers, and everything, and says everyone has essentially given him a leg up when he didn't deserve it.. Those people are jealous of his accomplishments if nothing else.

Good points in this thread.

His race could very well have been just as much of a handicap as it was an asset. His ethnicity made him stand out from the crowd, but it was Obama who made people follow him. We've had black people attempt to run for president in the past. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind. We all see how far their skin color got them.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by JaJae