Originally Posted by 7960 how, exactly? how did spending trillions in iraq affect your daily life? Seriously? Running up our debt has been a serious influence on the value of our dollar. Our buying power has declined. The instability created by war has contributed to the price of oil, driving ...
08-29-2008, 12:55 PM
| #21 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator  Democrat Omaha, NE 
| Originally Posted by 7960 Seriously?
Running up our debt has been a serious influence on the value of our dollar. Our buying power has declined. The instability created by war has contributed to the price of oil, driving up gasoline prices and particularly diesel. Those are two things that fuck me on a daily basis. | ||||
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08-29-2008, 01:35 PM
| #22 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by kinggovernor Well to start...
Letter to President Clinton on Iraq Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick | ||||
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08-29-2008, 01:42 PM
| #23 | ||||
| America Fuck Yea Election Moderator  Republican In Name Only
| Originally Posted by DosEquis and the democratic leaders that voted for Iraq, like Joe Biden? He would have made a great Sec State pick for Al Gore
we can play the what if game forever, but its a worthless exercise | ||||
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08-29-2008, 04:37 PM
| #24 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster  Realist
| Originally Posted by DosEquis
 a loaf of bread takes nearly the same dollars our of your pocket today that it did then. | ||||
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08-29-2008, 05:32 PM
| #25 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by 7960 Where are you shopping?
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08-29-2008, 05:35 PM
| #26 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by DosEquis at the same store I've shopped at for 12 years. it was 99 cents then and it's $1.29 now
The Inflation Calculator hmm, inflation calculator says it should cost $1.30..........HOLY FUCKING HELL I'M LOSING 1 CENT! | ||||
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08-29-2008, 06:12 PM
| #27 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by 7960 So you are basing your whole argument on one item, a single loaf of bread? 1 gallon of gas was a $1.54 in 2000. Any other single items we going to nit pick and try to cancel each other out with? How about wage growth keeping up with that inflation?
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08-29-2008, 06:14 PM
| #28 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by DosEquis ahh, ok, I forgot that all happened because spending trillions of dollars in Iraq
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08-29-2008, 07:00 PM
| #29 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by Angus_Aboot All of the financial institutions were left to completely do whatever they wanted. They created all of these mortgage backed assets completely without government intervention or oversight. It was a big part of the mortgage crisis. The run up in home prices, the heavy pressure to write new mortgages so that firms could sell these MBS... it's all intertwined. that's the free market.
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08-30-2008, 02:23 AM
| #30 | ||||
| Arse Anarchist Halifax, Nova Scotia
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9
 I don't think there is any business at all that can do whatever they want. Originally Posted by WickedLou9 The Federal Reserve played a huge role in the housing market, just look at the time-line. Between 2001 and 2003, Alan Greenspanan cut the federal funds target from 6.5% (January 2001) down to an absurd 1% (June 2003). The 1% rate was then held for an entire year, the Fed then steadily moved them back up to 5.25% by June 2006. The connection between these moves by the Federal Reserve, versus the ups and downs of the housing market is pretty striking.
Going on, the mortgage market has been heavily regulated, and the Fed and other financial regulators have forced banks to give loans to people with low (or no) credit ratings. And under the CRA, banks that want to change any sort of business operation (merge, new branch, etc...) were required to show that they have made enough loans to (government favored borrowers (IE sub-prime). And semi tax-funded community groups like the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, can halt said banks by petitioning regulators and halting the bank's development...etc... Blaming the free market is quite silly. | ||||
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08-30-2008, 10:48 AM
| #31 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by 7960 Well it is all related. It might not be directly related in most cases but it most certainly has an affect on our economy. Fuel prices, particularly diesel has an affect on the price of goods and services through out our entire country. Instability in the middle east from our bombs contributes to the price of fuel. Diesel is still $4+ a gallon here in Nebraska and the trucks and tractors we use to get everyones corn and cattle ready run on it. It just so happens to be the same fuel the humvees and trucks that support 150,000 soldiers run on.
Though this inflation calculator claims a loaf of bread is right on pace with inflation over the last 8 years. The price of things like chicken, beef, dairy products, corn, are all out pacing this inflation calculator you are linking to. In the mean time wages are not keeping up. There is extra overhead from the fuel costs. The dollar drops because of all our loans we had to take out to pay for this conflict, etc etc. To say it has no affect on our daily lives is just bullshit. Not to mention we all probably have a friend or family member that has been needed to go over there. | ||||
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08-30-2008, 11:44 AM
| #32 | ||||
| Arse Anarchist Halifax, Nova Scotia
| Originally Posted by DosEquis Not to get into your discussion, but I'd just like to point out that one of the reasons meat prices are going up in the U.S. (particularly beef) is because of the Farm Bill. Corn, sugar, and wheat have all received increased subsidies. So farms are now taking acreage from pastureland and liquidating herds. Thus, increasing the price.
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08-31-2008, 01:51 AM
| #33 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by DosEquis chicken
Aug 1988 50.96 Jul 2008 88.25 beef Aug 1988 113.90 Jul 2008 133.00 Poultry (chicken) - Monthly Price - Commodity Prices nope, in fact they're WAY UNDER the amount the inflation calculator says they should be.
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08-31-2008, 10:35 AM
| #34 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by Angus_Aboot So the federal government MADE those companies make loans to sub prime borrowers? I know GNMA and FNMA are another story, but the problem was by no means limited to them. Banks, mortgage brokers and mortgage lenders across the country were full engaged in this of thier own volition. They took astronomical risks, made bad decisions and suffered the consequences. the Fed didn't help, but then again, the Fed shouldn't be acting to prevent people from making bad decisions. No matter where the Fed sets rates, it's still up to each Fin Inst if and how much they want to borrow. In the end, it doesn't matter what the rate is if you are lending to people who can't pay you back. Those decisions, lending to people with bad or no credit, was a free market function.
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08-31-2008, 10:37 AM
| #35 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by 7960 Me thinks your starting point might have something to do with it. 1988 wasn't exactly economic boom time.
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08-31-2008, 11:10 AM
| #36 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 the lowest poultry number was 46.52.......inflation makes that 80 and change and the website says it's actually 88.
that's because of trillions being spent in iraq? | ||||
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08-31-2008, 01:42 PM
| #37 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by 7960 In part, but not by itself. The money we spent on Iraq, combined with the rest of the government spending, tax cuts, drop in the value of the dollar, bio fuel subsidies, etc. thats why meat, milk, etc, is so expensive right now.
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08-31-2008, 02:25 PM
| #38 | ||||
| Arse Anarchist Halifax, Nova Scotia
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 You even know about GNMA and FNMA and still blame the free market!
. Originally Posted by WickedLou9 Yes, but as I already showed they were forced to do it, any Government involvement = NOT FREE.
Originally Posted by WickedLou9 I have already clearly shown that the banking/mortgage industry is heavily regulated by the government. But I'll go on.
In 1994, the Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act changed the regulatory barriers to bank mergers. (If the existed at all then the market wasn't free!) According to Ben Bernanke: As public scrutiny of bank merger and acquisition activity escalated, advocacy groups [like A.C.O.R.N.] increasingly used the public comment process to protest bank applications on C.R.A. grounds. (Not a Free Market) In 1995, the U.S. Department of Treasury started the multibillion-dollar Community Development Financial Institutions fund which gave private banks taxpayer money to help continue financing "community economic development" as laid out in the C.R.A. (Not a Free Market) Also in 1995, The government changed the regulatory requirements for C.R.A. loans, allowing and pressuring banks to make such bad loans without the benefit of many traditional loan criteria (savings history, size of the mortgage payment relative to income, and even verification of income!) Instead, the Federal Reserve told banks that participation in a credit-counseling program, federally funded of course, could be used as "proof" of a low-income applicant's ability to make his mortgage payments. Meaning, federal bank regulators required banks to make bad loans based on completely nonexistent credit standards. (Not a Free Market) There really isn't any argument that housing market isn't regulated (I.E. NOT FREE!) | ||||
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