The more reading I do the more I can't help but think we need universal healthcare...

6SpeedTA95 · 09-24-2006, 11:16 PM

For children. People 18 years of age and under for everyone, not just poor, not just rich but everyone. Why? Because I have a hard time punishing a child for their parents shortcomings. It seems that getting someone health coverage to age of adulthood is not only a just thing to do but its also the right thing to do.

I'm still conflicted internally about this but after all the reading I've done this weekend thats the conclusion that I"m beginning to come to.

Thorgrim · 09-24-2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

For children. People 18 years of age and under for everyone, not just poor, not just rich but everyone. Why? Because I have a hard time punishing a child for their parents shortcomings. It seems that getting someone health coverage to age of adulthood is not only a just thing to do but its also the right thing to do.

I'm still conflicted internally about this but after all the reading I've done this weekend thats the conclusion that I"m beginning to come to.

You'd have to couple this with a plan to make every public school like the flying successful public schools they have in NoVa, and meal plans/after school programs for kids to keep them health in conjunction with medical care

Then we'd be really close to an equal society

IminWonderland · 09-24-2006, 11:59 PM

I tend to agree with you.

We have it in California, however, it is sucked dry by illegal immigrants.

For citizens, I would love it for every child....

ballz2wallz · 09-25-2006, 06:42 AM

Young children already get it.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I tend to agree with you.

We have it in California, however, it is sucked dry by illegal immigrants.

For citizens, I would love it for every child....

You should be a US citizen NOT an illegal immigrant.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Young children already get it.

Until high school graduation I think they should get it. Also there's all kinds of income restrictions on the current system.

motivez · 09-25-2006, 04:34 PM

If you can see the benefit of it for children, what's the step missing for you to be able to see the benefit for all Americans as an option?

If you think that it shuld be handled by the Government for children, rather than private organizations -- because they're unable to provide it for themselves, why not adults too?

It'd be a great boon to our society if children all had access to the healthcare they needed, and the same is true for adults too.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

If you can see the benefit of it for children, what's the step missing for you to be able to see the benefit for all Americans as an option?

If you think that it shuld be handled by the Government for children, rather than private organizations -- because they're unable to provide it for themselves, why not adults too?

It'd be a great boon to our society if children all had access to the healthcare they needed, and the same is true for adults too.

That's what bothers me, the slippery slope...

Children should get it because they shouldn't be held responsible for their parents shortcomings, bad luck or lack of ambition. Thats why children should get it. Once you're an adult find a job that pays yoru insurance or go to college and get on one of the ULTRA cheap college plans thats available to students at most universities.

motivez · 09-25-2006, 04:51 PM

You're assuming that those who can't provide it for themselves lack ambition or have shortcomings. Can you provide some evidence of this on the whole? You're essentially calling the millions of Americans without healthcare lazy or whatever..

Not everyone is going to be well enough off to provide it for themselves, especially things like expensive perscription drugs.

I think that applies especially to people in college, regardless of whether or not it's "ULTRA CHEAP", most students already graudate with large amounts (30k or something is typical) amounts of debt.. should we really be tacking on more so those who are the future successful people of our society can afford medications or treatment they need?

I dunno. I see it as an arguement for a progressive society that wants the best for its people. I think it's somewhat ridiculous that conservatives can justify something like everyone pitching in for military spending -- regardless of whether or not they agree how that's used, or who our technology is shipped to -- because it's for the "common good", but not something like healthcare, which is also essential to quality of life.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

You're assuming that those who can't provide it for themselves lack ambition or have shortcomings. Can you provide some evidence of this on the whole? You're essentially calling the millions of Americans without healthcare lazy or whatever..

Not everyone is going to be well enough off to provide it for themselves, especially things like expensive perscription drugs.

I think that applies especially to people in college, regardless of whether or not it's "ULTRA CHEAP", most students already graudate with large amounts (30k or something is typical) amounts of debt.. should we really be tacking on more so those who are the future successful people of our society can afford medications or treatment they need?

I dunno. I see it as an arguement for a progressive society that wants the best for its people. I think it's somewhat ridiculous that conservatives can justify something like everyone pitching in for military spending -- regardless of whether or not they agree how that's used, or who our technology is shipped to -- because it's for the "common good", but not something like healthcare, which is also essential to quality of life.

A lot of them can provide for themselves. I'm not talking about people with disabilities, I'm talking about the host of people that chose to drop out of high school and/or not get any sort of education beyond high school. So they're stuck with crappy jobs. They are adults and therefore have to be responsible for their actions. Choose to drop out of high school then you CHOSE to make that choice and endure the hardships that come along with it.

You are born mentally retarded, you did not make that decision and I have no problems helping you out.

There's a whole host of things that are "common good" or "quality of life" issues. Things like air conditioning, heating, cars, etc...if you make poor decisions that affect your quality of life thats not my responsiblity. However, if your parents make/made poor decisiosn then I think you deserve some help to get out of the mess they've created.

ballz2wallz · 09-25-2006, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Until high school graduation I think they should get it. Also there's all kinds of income restrictions on the current system.

I don't think they should. That only gives more reasons for people not to have to work hard to take care of their kids.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think they should. That only gives more reasons for people not to have to work hard to take care of their kids.

I think the huge majority will work hard to take care of the kids, most of those who wouldn't work hard because of this are already not working hard IMO.

WickedLou9 · 09-25-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

A lot of them can provide for themselves. I'm not talking about people with disabilities, I'm talking about the host of people that chose to drop out of high school and/or not get any sort of education beyond high school. So they're stuck with crappy jobs. They are adults and therefore have to be responsible for their actions. Choose to drop out of high school then you CHOSE to make that choice and endure the hardships that come along with it.

You are born mentally retarded, you did not make that decision and I have no problems helping you out.

There's a whole host of things that are "common good" or "quality of life" issues. Things like air conditioning, heating, cars, etc...if you make poor decisions that affect your quality of life thats not my responsiblity. However, if your parents make/made poor decisiosn then I think you deserve some help to get out of the mess they've created.

Alot of people who own thier own businesses can't afford the cost of health insurance. smaller mom and pop type operations.
Have they made poor choices to go out on thier own?

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Alot of people who own thier own businesses can't afford the cost of health insurance. smaller mom and pop type operations.
Have they made poor choices to go out on thier own?

Thats a choice THEY made, I shouldn't have to pay for it. If they choose to go into business for themselves thats something they have to decide. They choose to give up benefits in xchange for working for themselves. They weigh those costs not me.

motivez · 09-25-2006, 06:37 PM

But again, the same principles would be guiding the decision to expand it to include adults as it would for covering children -- making the country, and the world a better place to live in for individuals.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-25-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

But again, the same principles would be guiding the decision to expand it to include adults as it would for covering children -- making the country, and the world a better place to live in for individuals.

Does it really make it a better place? Having me pay for healthcare of those that chose to not make proper decisions throughout their lives? Is it really better if R&D slows down drastically? Is it a better world for the children of our kids? our grandkids? etc?

Giving healthcare to kids 18 and under seems reasonable, it seems like the right thing to do in terms of not holding them responsible for mistakes or issues their parents may encounter.

Adults are responsible for themselves, I'm not responsible for you, you're not responsible for me, we're responsible for ourselves.

imind · 09-25-2006, 09:44 PM

February 3, 2005
Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work -- losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most.

link

i remember a while ago, back on OT, that some suggested that you should prepare your family for these sorts of medical emergencies. but how does one save the tens of thousands, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to cover these expenses?

WickedLou9 · 09-26-2006, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Thats a choice THEY made, I shouldn't have to pay for it. If they choose to go into business for themselves thats something they have to decide. They choose to give up benefits in xchange for working for themselves. They weigh those costs not me.

So you want to discourage private business ownership?

WickedLou9 · 09-26-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by imind

i remember a while ago, back on OT, that some suggested that you should prepare your family for these sorts of medical emergencies. but how does one save the tens of thousands, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to cover these expenses?

Unless you are amoung the top 1% of wage earners.. you really can't. You either have health insurance or you go bankrupt.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-26-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9