Regarding Iraq. What are our goals, and what are we doing to achieve them?

Dumpy Dooby · 10-09-2008, 02:54 AM

I get that our goal is to "liberate" Iraq, to "make it safe for democracy" and all that other happy horse shit. But that's vague. What are our precise goals at this point?

Yes, I understand that Iraq is riddled with war lords -- akin to post-Soviet invasion Afghanistan -- that are all competing for de facto authoritarianism. I understand that Mullah Omar et al. won't go anywhere near it due to pressures in Afghanistan.

What I don't know is who are the war lords and on what grounds are they fighting each other (besides wanting power, because that's generally not enough, especially if they all have the common goal of just evicting their current government)? In Afghanistan, like-minded groups merged to increase their power, e.g., Taliban and al Qaeda. Is this happening again? I don't know who is fighting in Iraq. Also, is there a push for Saudi Arabian style Wahhabism again?

I know the Internet is playing a major role for insurgent communication, including the posting of videos so that other insurgencies can learn how to overpower organized warfare. Have we done anything to combat that problem? I know the Taliban tried to censor the Internet in Afghanistan, using a combination of technological tactics as well as good old fashioned violence, both of which were unsuccessful.

Discuss.

DosEquis · 10-09-2008, 09:21 AM

The goal is to win! and to do so we can never leave.

But in all seriousness I am pretty sure we have already won and accomplished anything we are going to accomplish. We need to leave. Then as part of leaving a force to remain in Kuwait, leave air planes around, to keep Iran from keeping too ambitious.

WickedLou9 · 10-09-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The goal is to win! and to do so we can never leave.

But in all seriousness I am pretty sure we have already won and accomplished anything we are going to accomplish. We need to leave. Then as part of leaving a force to remain in Kuwait, leave air planes around, to keep Iran from keeping too ambitious.

yeah, the concept that we can "lose" is sort of nonsense. We aren't fighting a war in the traditional sense. It's actually quite the opposite. We are trying to keep the peace. In that regard, we SHOULD set timelines. Otherwise we are just holding the Iraqi army's hands and saying, " don't worry we will stay as long as you want us". Well it's time for some hands on learning. Hand it over. Ready or not. trial by fire. sink or swim. That kinda thing. If they know we are leaving on such and such a date, they will actually have a goal to work for.
The idea that the "insurgents" are simply waiting in the shadows for us to leave, and at that moment they will pounce and wreak violence and havok is just absurd. They could do that now. They could go into hiding and make it look like everything is safe. Then we actually would leave. So the idea that by giving them a date that we would encourage this sort of thing.. it's just silly. set dates, hand over control. get the F out of there.

DosEquis · 10-09-2008, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

yeah, the concept that we can "lose" is sort of nonsense. We aren't fighting a war in the traditional sense. It's actually quite the opposite. We are trying to keep the peace. In that regard, we SHOULD set timelines. Otherwise we are just holding the Iraqi army's hands and saying, " don't worry we will stay as long as you want us". Well it's time for some hands on learning. Hand it over. Ready or not. trial by fire. sink or swim. That kinda thing. If they know we are leaving on such and such a date, they will actually have a goal to work for.
The idea that the "insurgents" are simply waiting in the shadows for us to leave, and at that moment they will pounce and wreak violence and havok is just absurd. They could do that now. They could go into hiding and make it look like everything is safe. Then we actually would leave. So the idea that by giving them a date that we would encourage this sort of thing.. it's just silly. set dates, hand over control. get the F out of there.

I have a white flag of surrender you can borrow

WickedLou9 · 10-09-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I have a white flag of surrender you can borrow

WHY DO I HATE AMERICA?!

Dumpy Dooby · 10-09-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The goal is to win! and to do so we can never leave.

But in all seriousness I am pretty sure we have already won and accomplished anything we are going to accomplish. We need to leave. Then as part of leaving a force to remain in Kuwait, leave air planes around, to keep Iran from keeping too ambitious.

I'm not really asking what ought to be done. Obviously I agree with just up and leaving post-haste, but we both know that isn't going to happen. I'm curious to know what our leaders have stated as being their goals and what they're doing to accomplish those goals.

Photon1001 · 10-09-2008, 12:46 PM

But McCain already gave us 4 withdrawal dates for the Iraq war: 2108, 3008, 12,008, and the end of time.

Dispatcher · 10-09-2008, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Photon1001

But McCain already gave us 4 withdrawal dates for the Iraq war: 2108, 3008, 12,008, and the end of time.

fortunately, he won't live that long....not that he'll get elected anyway.

Dispatcher · 10-09-2008, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

WHY DO I HATE AMERICA?!

Shame on you. Does your mother know what you are saying? I'm telling on you!

Photon1001 · 10-09-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

fortunately, he won't live that long....not that he'll get elected anyway.

What are talking about John McCain's already been around ten thousand years.

DosEquis · 10-09-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I'm not really asking what ought to be done. Obviously I agree with just up and leaving post-haste, but we both know that isn't going to happen. I'm curious to know what our leaders have stated as being their goals and what they're doing to accomplish those goals.

I am not too clear on John McCain's position. I believe he feels we need to stay because the surged worked and we need to stay to win, because doing otherwise is waving the white flag of surrender. How long, I have no idea. I am guessing until (if he wins) his first term, and about half way through he would declare victory and start bringing the guys home.

Barack Obama, I am also not 100% clear but he has gone between pulling troops out with about a year and a half time frame, or used words like responsible withdrawal. The part I am not clear on is whether his responsible withdrawal is referring to his original year and a half plan...or if it means something else. Either way we are leaving Iraq with his statement.

Angus_Aboot · 10-09-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Barack Obama, I am also not 100% clear but he has gone between pulling troops out with about a year and a half time frame, or used words like responsible withdrawal. The part I am not clear on is whether his responsible withdrawal is referring to his original year and a half plan...or if it means something else. Either way we are leaving Iraq with his statement.

We as in combat troops sure.

Photon1001 · 10-09-2008, 03:39 PM

Fewer combat troops is better than more troops.

Angus_Aboot · 10-09-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Photon1001

Fewer combat troops is better than more troops.

Fewer combat troops still isn't leaving.

Photon1001 · 10-09-2008, 03:45 PM

It is for them.

Angus_Aboot · 10-09-2008, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Photon1001

It is for them.

It isn't for "we" as was stated.

Rouger2 · 10-09-2008, 03:52 PM

I don't know nobody knows. The politicans and generals won't tell us. What are their views on what will happen when we leave. I mean what tribes and what war lords will cause trouble. I know they are strong in the south, but quiet. The sunnis are on the job, and even getting paid now, and no longer our enemies. That part of the surge worked wonders, and the Kurds are settle in, so let's Go.