So Saudi Arabia wants to build a fence on its borders and...

[slosucks]

No international outrage, yet when israel builds one, the world court rules it illegal.

CNN.com - Saudis plan fence to block*Iraq's terrorists - Sep 27, 2006

the contradictions are piling up higher and higher

[6SpeedTA95]

You're also forgetting to mention the US. We mention a fence and many in the world community shit bricks because we want to protect our sovereignty

[Thorgrim]

Israel didn't a build a fence on its borders, it build a fence inside its country to keep its special IDF citizens away from their the oppressed under their brutal occupation

And the US is having an internal debate...France is not calling for us to abandon a fence with mexico...

god where do you guys pull this stuff from...

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Israel didn't a build a fence on its borders, it build a fence inside its country to keep its special IDF citizens away from their the oppressed under their brutal occupation

And the US is having an internal debate...France is not calling for us to abandon a fence with mexico...

god where do you guys pull this stuff from...

France??? Has france even said a word about our fence?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

France??? Has france even said a word about our fence?

they haven't and thats my point...

why did anyone bring up the mexico fence?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

they haven't and thats my point...

why did anyone bring up the mexico fence?

Because this thread is about a double standard in the international community...

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Because this thread is about a double standard in the international community...

404 double standard not found...someone brought up israel, which would be a good point...if it was true...read above post...mexico is not an issue

[ethyl]

So I guess it's just a coincidence that the West Bank Barrier stopped almost all further attacks from the al-Aqsa Intifada. Walls certainly have immediate working effects. It's up in the air whether their restrictions on freedoms are worth the dramatic increase in security, but there is definitely a double standard going on... and Saudi Arabia should be able to build a wall. It's too bad Iraq's borders are so huge since a wall against Syria and Iran would be appropriate too.

[avsp]

are the saudis planning to run their fence through populated areas?

a more accurate historical comparison would be the berlin wall, ..., which also achived, (largely), its aims

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by avsp

are the saudis planning to run their fence through populated areas?

a more accurate historical comparison would be the berlin wall, ..., which also achived, (largely), its aims

The Berlin wall was a prison wall designed to keep the population from leaving. Not so with the Israel wall, Saudi wall or the maybe Mexico/US wall.

[avsp]

yes & it worked, mostly

my point was that it went thru populated areas

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

The Berlin wall was a prison wall designed to keep the population from leaving. Not so with the Israel wall,

Come on.. you don't think they want to be able to restrict the population from having access to their homes, their land, other neighboorhoods, etc? That's pretty naive IMO..

There are already insane travel restrictions placed on ordinary Palestinians, being regularly denied from using certain roads that lead to their house, forcing them to spend money they don't have if they want to be able to get home from work or visiting a relative, etc..

Lets not forget like Thorgrim said, this wall was built inside someone elses territory as part of the illegal Israeli occupation in many cases, vastly different than other walls like ours, or even the Saudi's I guess.

It wouldn't suprise me if the US backed this effort as a way to prevent Saudi's from being easily recruited into the Jihad in Iraq against US and coalition forces.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by motivez

Come on.. you don't think they want to be able to restrict the population from having access to their homes, their land, other neighboorhoods, etc? That's pretty naive IMO..

There are already insane travel restrictions placed on ordinary Palestinians, being regularly denied from using certain roads that lead to their house, forcing them to spend money they don't have if they want to be able to get home from work or visiting a relative, etc..

Lets not forget like Thorgrim said, this wall was built inside someone elses territory as part of the illegal Israeli occupation in many cases, vastly different than other walls like ours, or even the Saudi's I guess.

It wouldn't suprise me if the US backed this effort as a way to prevent Saudi's from being easily recruited into the Jihad in Iraq against US and coalition forces.

Israel won that territory after they were attacked and won. They could claim it as their own if they want, for some reason they don't.

If the Palestinians want to move to America, Syria, England, France, Egypt, Spain, Russia, etc etc the Israelis won't stop them. The people behind the Berlin wall didn't have that opportunity. The walls are no where near the same.

[slosucks]

the land is not owned illegally, so technically, its still all israel, so there goes your point.

its not like they built a wall and then the terrorism started. considering it stopped nearly all terror attacks one could make a case that it was worth it.

[motivez]

The land in question isn't owned by Israel at all, they simply occupy it illegally and oppress the Palestinian people by using their illegal settlements to control strategically important areas (on top of hills, around water, etc). That prevents the Palestinian people to really ever have autonomy and begin working torwards an economy, and all of the other things that eventually lead to a society not interested in blowing people up.

The same justification is used to explain away our free trade with China while ignoring their massive human rights violations. Eventually the trade will lead to reforms that benefit everyone in China.

There were 315 suicide attacks between 1980 and 2003. That's honestly not that many, and so while they suck, and stopping attacks is great, I don't believe it justifies the intensity of the oppression the regular, non-terrorist Palestinian people are forced to live under. The ends don't justify the means when there are other means available.

It really baffles me that people don't see the causality of harsh oppression and a "resistance" movement fighting back. If you oppress people, they'll fight back with whatever they can. Their methods may be horrible and unjustifiable, but then so is the level of oppression they are forced to live under.

[avsp]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Israel won that territory after they were attacked and won. They could claim it as their own if they want, for some reason they don't.

If the Palestinians want to move to America, Syria, England, France, Egypt, Spain, Russia, etc etc the Israelis won't stop them. The people behind the Berlin wall didn't have that opportunity. The walls are no where near the same.

the similarities are that they were imposed against the will of the people whose homes they destroyed, ..., & that the walls, largely, achieved their aims

either way both walls are disimilar in the populated areas aspect than the proposed Saudi wall, IIUC

isnt the purpose of this thread to draw distinctions/similarities between walls in order to claim that Isreal is being 'put upon' & subject to unequal-handed scrutiny?

[DosEquis]

I could care less if Saudi builds a fence on their border. I think the significant difference between our fence and their fence is people cross their border to blow shit up. We would be doing our fence to save money on our social services, education, and law enforcement, etc. They are building a fence to prevent attacks.

Some people have a problem with building a fence along the mexican border simply to save money, and they think we should help those mexicans who are willing to come here and work for little money. Personally i think we should do it, and prevent what amounts to a modern day slave trade. They work for shit, live 20 to a house, and are a burden on our social systems. Illegal immigrants are bad mmmkay.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I could care less if Saudi builds a fence on their border. I think the significant difference between our fence and their fence is people cross their border to blow shit up. We would be doing our fence to save money on our social services, education, and law enforcement, etc. They are building a fence to prevent attacks.

Some people have a problem with building a fence along the mexican border simply to save money, and they think we should help those mexicans who are willing to come here and work for little money. Personally i think we should do it, and prevent what amounts to a modern day slave trade. They work for shit, live 20 to a house, and are a burden on our social systems. Illegal immigrants are bad mmmkay.

Now if we had thought about putting that fence/wall, Oh, lets say 5 years ago, it would have made perfect sense as it would have been a justified homeland security action. We would have killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Same with the northern border. A portion of the 318 billion we have spent so far on the WOT would have built 2 really nice fences.

AS long as none of my tax dollars help, in anyway, build that fence for the Saudis, I say build away.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Now if we had thought about putting that fence/wall, Oh, lets say 5 years ago, it would have made perfect sense as it would have been a justified homeland security action. We would have killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Same with the northern border. A portion of the 318 billion we have spent so far on the WOT would have built 2 really nice fences.

AS long as none of my tax dollars help, in anyway, build that fence for the Saudis, I say build away.

You pay for their fence when you fill up with gas to get to work

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

You pay for their fence when you fill up with gas to get to work

No tax dollars involved.