Doctors leaving the state :(

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 09:25 PM

Watched a couple news articles on the number of doctors leaving the state...its disturbing...the reason? The government primarily...they dont get paid quick enough on a state/federal level.

55% of briths are paid for by medicaid. 35% of all births are to unwed mothers which is also the number 1 cause of poverty in the US

So basically doctors are doing much of their work waiting to be reimbursed by state and federal governments and now they're leaving because the reimbursement process is either slow or not paying an adaquate amount for the services rendered

ballz2wallz · 09-27-2006, 10:02 PM

Ah yes, the beauty of socialized healthcare...

JaJae · 09-27-2006, 10:05 PM

I got pretty sick this week. I have to go see a specialist. I was talking to a guy from Canada and our conversation went like this:

Him: Ahhh, a specialist? In the states? How much is that gonna cost you?
Me: I have insurance... it's not that much.
Him: Oh well that's good. How long till you get to see him though?
Me: I have an appointment tomorrow morning.
Him: TOMORROW? Geez, anything under 2 months here is something to brag about!
Me: Enjoy your socialized healthcare.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I got pretty sick this week. I have to go see a specialist. I was talking to a guy from Canada and our conversation went like this:

Him: Ahhh, a specialist? In the states? How much is that gonna cost you?
Me: I have insurance... it's not that much.
Him: Oh well that's good. How long till you get to see him though?
Me: I have an appointment tomorrow morning.
Him: TOMORROW? Geez, anything under 2 months here is something to brag about!
Me: Enjoy your socialized healthcare.

Pretty typical of socialized medicine.

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I got pretty sick this week. I have to go see a specialist. I was talking to a guy from Canada and our conversation went like this:

Him: Ahhh, a specialist? In the states? How much is that gonna cost you?
Me: I have insurance... it's not that much.
Him: Oh well that's good. How long till you get to see him though?
Me: I have an appointment tomorrow morning.
Him: TOMORROW? Geez, anything under 2 months here is something to brag about!
Me: Enjoy your socialized healthcare.

What if you didnt have insurance???

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Pretty typical of socialized medicine.

What is the alternative?? Get sick and die? Isnt waiting 2 months better than not getting any care at all??

ballz2wallz · 09-27-2006, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

What is the alternative?? Get sick and die? Isnt waiting 2 months better than not getting any care at all??

That'll never happen in the states.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

What is the alternative?? Get sick and die? Isnt waiting 2 months better than not getting any care at all??

How about allowing me and my insurance to pay for it and getting my ass in within 2 days? 2 days > 2 months when it comes to doctor visits.

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

How about allowing me and my insurance to pay for it and getting my ass in within 2 days? 2 days > 2 months when it comes to doctor visits.

Suppose you dont have insurance.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Suppose you dont have insurance.

Then I pay for it...

If I'm poor then perhaps a charity organization and/or church would help?

If the government pays for it then you wind up like oklahoma where doctors are leaving, its hard to attract them prices go up for everyone who can at least for now pay for healthcare, not a fair situation at all.

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That'll never happen in the states.

Yes it does, I know first hand that it does.

Here is the short version;

My employer and one of his employees were diagnosed with colon cancer within weeks of each other. Both had surgery in the same month. After surgery my employer spent 6 weeks at MD Anderson, the employee was sent home with outpatient care. My employer had insurance, the employee did not. She died 3 months after her surgery. He is cancer free and living well thanks to the care he received at MD Anderson.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Yes it does, I know first hand that it does.

Here is the short version;

My employer and one of his employees were diagnosed with colon cancer within weeks of each other. Both had surgery in the same month. After surgery my employer spent 6 weeks at MD Anderson, the employee was sent home with outpatient care. My employer had insurance, the employee did not. She died 3 months after her surgery. He is cancer free and living well thanks to the care he received at MD Anderson.

And the cancers were in the exact same spot, under the exact same circumstances and in the same stages of progression? they recieved the same treatments? and were in equal physical condition before surgery?

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

And the cancers were in the exact same spot, under the exact same circumstances and in the same stages of progression? they recieved the same treatments? and were in equal physical condition before surgery?

That is just my point,,,, they did not receive the same treatment because one had insurance and one did not. I am not saying she would not have died anyway, but the out rage for us all at the time was that she did not have the means to receive the same treatment.

JaJae · 09-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

That is just my point,,,, they did not receive the same treatment because one had insurance and one did not. I am not saying she would not have died anyway, but the out rage for us all at the time was that she did not have the means to receive the same treatment.

So rather than giving one shitty care and letting the other have the option for better care your solution is force everyone to have shitty care? This way everyone dies.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-27-2006, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

That is just my point,,,, they did not receive the same treatment because one had insurance and one did not. I am not saying she would not have died anyway, but the out rage for us all at the time was that she did not have the means to receive the same treatment.

If she can't pay for it why should she get it at my expense? that just limits my ability to meet my own needs.

Is it outrageous that I dont live ina 5000 sq ft house but my buddy does? Is it outrageous that he eats at fantastic restaurants all the time? Is it outrageous that gas prices dont affect him?

Shit no its not outrageous its called life. Take it in stride and move on.

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

So rather than giving one shitty care and letting the other have the option for better care your solution is force everyone to have shitty care? This way everyone dies.

That isnt at all what I said. I was simply stating that maybe, just maybe, something was better than nothing.

JaJae · 09-27-2006, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

That isnt at all what I said. I was simply stating that maybe, just maybe, something was better than nothing.

Look at Canada as your example. For the two people you know in their circumstance. Which would be better.. them being in America under our conditions or them being in Canada?

Keep in mind Canada has hospitals closing, a doctor shortage, LONG wait times.. months to see a specialist. And their quality of care has deteriorated, as well as their lack of funding to upkeep their medical equipment.

Both received treatment in American facilities. I personally would prefer bad American health care to Canadian healthcare.

Now I'm in my mid twenties. Finishing up school. Working part-time currently and I pay for my own health care coverage. It's a basic HMO, costs me a shit load in NJ, but I have it. It's not good care, in fact it's pretty shitty I guess you could say. But, I'd take this over paying for Canadian health care out of my paychecks.

KatKanPlay · 09-27-2006, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

If she can't pay for it why should she get it at my expense? that just limits my ability to meet my own needs.

Is it outrageous that I dont live ina 5000 sq ft house but my buddy does? Is it outrageous that he eats at fantastic restaurants all the time? Is it outrageous that gas prices dont affect him?

Shit no its not outrageous its called life. Take it in stride and move on.

We are discussing health care not materialistic possessions, huge difference. But it is very clear that your opinion is if you can afford it, you get it, if you cant you dont. Millions of Americans work hard everyday to pay their own way, but if they get sick they are totally screwed. Tough luck Charlie, sucks to be you......It is perfectly okay that billions upon billions of tax dollars are spent to explore space, fight baseless wars, subsidize rich corporations, but you cant be bothered with basic the needs of your fellow citizens.

Like it or not you are not your own island, you are a member of a society that must take care of its own or it will die as a society. Stop looking at those who need assistance as beggers or panhandlers who refuse to do for themselves. Shit happens to us all and many would never make their way back to productivity if it werent for programs and assistance that keep them treading water long enough to find their footing. My guess is you are a member of the middle class, you didnt get there by yourself. Many sacrificed and even died to create the middle class you now enjoy. And I would also venture to guess that if the bottom fell out of you world tomorrow, and it very well could, you might be forced to request a little help also. Without that assistance you would tumble down the ladder to poverty and be forced to stay there.

In the richest most resourceful country on this planet, it is unacceptable that people die for lack of money to pay for healthcare. I dont know if socialized healthcare is the answer but I do know that something is better than nothing. And if you can afford something better, you will have that option. I only suggest that you take a good look at where your tax dollars are being spent and be active to make sure to cut out the pork so that your tax dollars are better spent on things the citizens of this country truly need and not spent on the whims of special interest. Stop whining about the government giving assistance to it citizens and start screaming about the waste in government spending.

kinggovernor · 09-28-2006, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

What is the alternative?? Get sick and die? Isnt waiting 2 months better than not getting any care at all??

I truly don't give a fuck about anyone else, I am not going to turn over another 10-20% of my income so everyone can see a doctor and my healthcare is degraded.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-28-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

We are discussing health care not materialistic possessions, huge difference. But it is very clear that your opinion is if you can afford it, you get it, if you cant you dont. Millions of Americans work hard everyday to pay their own way, but if they get sick they are totally screwed. Tough luck Charlie, sucks to be you......It is perfectly okay that billions upon billions of tax dollars are spent to explore space, fight baseless wars, subsidize rich corporations, but you cant be bothered with basic the needs of your fellow citizens.

Like it or not you are not your own island, you are a member of a society that must take care of its own or it will die as a society. Stop looking at those who need assistance as beggers or panhandlers who refuse to do for themselves. Shit happens to us all and many would never make their way back to productivity if it werent for programs and assistance that keep them treading water long enough to find their footing. My guess is you are a member of the middle class, you didnt get there by yourself. Many sacrificed and even died to create the middle class you now enjoy. And I would also venture to guess that if the bottom fell out of you world tomorrow, and it very well could, you might be forced to request a little help also. Without that assistance you would tumble down the ladder to poverty and be forced to stay there.

In the richest most resourceful country on this planet, it is unacceptable that people die for lack of money to pay for healthcare. I dont know if socialized healthcare is the answer but I do know that something is better than nothing. And if you can afford something better, you will have that option. I only suggest that you take a good look at where your tax dollars are being spent and be active to make sure to cut out the pork so that your tax dollars are better spent on things the citizens of this country truly need and not spent on the whims of special interest. Stop whining about the government giving assistance to it citizens and start screaming about the waste in government spending.

There is no difference, I listed goods and services that are paid for JUST LIKE HEALTHCARE! Healthcare is not a right. It is not my job to fund your healthcare or anyone else's for that matter. Just my own and my wife's.

I can scream about mis appropriate spending all I want. In fact I'm constantly talking about how the government wastes money. Providing healthcare for everyone is only going to lead to a shortage of doctors, poor care and little progress.

Did you know use of MRI machines is severely limited in Canada, the UK and a host of other socialized medicine countries? The use of nuclear medicine also severely limited. Many of the treatments available here are NOT options under the government funded healthcare options in these other countries.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if the colon cancer survivor you know had a treatment that is only available in the US. Many people fly to the US or pay HUGE sums out of pocket for treatment and medicine overseas that the government wont cover due to cost reasons.