NY wants to ban certain food ingredients... - Page 3

JaJae · 09-28-2006, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You already have the choice. And it's very easy for you to find out if you have trans fats in your kitchen. All you have to do is read the information about the foods you buy. You don't need the government to do it for you, do you?

Please be more respectful of other forum members.

IminWonderland · 09-28-2006, 10:15 PM

How did Trans Fat become an ingredient? What is it in? Do recipes call for Trans Fat? I don't understand where this comes from...

JaJae · 09-28-2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

How did Trans Fat become an ingredient? What is it in? Do recipes call for Trans Fat? I don't understand where this comes from...

Hydrogenation of vegetable oils.

It's not something you add in like sugar. It's part of the oil you cook (usually fry) things in.

Nonphixion · 09-29-2006, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Hydrogenation of vegetable oils.

It's not something you add in like sugar. It's part of the oil you cook (usually fry) things in.

I am afriad you're wrong, it is something you add in. Trans Fat does not occur naturally in any of the foods in question, the vast majority never had it in the first place.

They add it in to the oil, like sugar, except on the factory side.

IminWonderland · 09-29-2006, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

I am afriad you're wrong, it is something you add in. Trans Fat does not occur naturally in any of the foods in question, the vast majority never had it in the first place.

They add it in to the oil, like sugar, except on the factory side.

Wait....

So, is this a recent addition? Why are they adding that to cooking oil? What purpose could it serve? Why does cooking oil need this? Is it a taste issue? Because I'm sure most of us can't even taste the difference...

Kytro · 09-29-2006, 01:40 AM

I do not agree with it being banned, however I'm not a fan of how people tend to make decisions often.

I'd prefer to put incentives in place to encourage people to make more sensible choices

JaJae · 09-29-2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

I am afriad you're wrong, it is something you add in. Trans Fat does not occur naturally in any of the foods in question, the vast majority never had it in the first place.

They add it in to the oil, like sugar, except on the factory side.

Not true.

Trans fats are the results of hydrogenating vegetable oil. It's done to increase shelf life. Trans fat in and of itself isn't an ingredient like sugar. It's the result of adding hydrogen to the oil or hydrogenation.

Trans fat is naturally occuring in vegatable oil after you hydrogenate it. You can't just add "trans fat" into the mix. It's the type of oil used.

Nonphixion · 09-29-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Not true.

Trans fats are the results of hydrogenating vegetable oil. It's done to increase shelf life. Trans fat in and of itself isn't an ingredient like sugar. It's the result of adding hydrogen to the oil or hydrogenation.

Trans fat is naturally occuring in vegatable oil after you hydrogenate it. You can't just add "trans fat" into the mix. It's the type of oil used.

Well I stand corrected.

They do transform the oil, not add anything to it.

IminWonderland · 09-29-2006, 02:58 PM

OK so they make the oil into something worse so they can keep it on a shelf longer? I mean, I buy a thing of vegetabe oil, and it doesn't go bad or anything. Is oil something that needs to have a shelf life of years or something?

I still don't see the purpose of making it that way. I'd like the choice of buying oil that isn't making this, I'll have to start looking at labels. It disturbs me that they can do that, and I buy it without knowing it has transfat in it...

Diesel66 · 09-29-2006, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Wait....

So, is this a recent addition? Why are they adding that to cooking oil? What purpose could it serve? Why does cooking oil need this? Is it a taste issue? Because I'm sure most of us can't even taste the difference...

It was pushed as a replacement of butter and natural fats. "margarine is better for you" then 10 years later, margarine is horrible for you

Benefits of hydrogenating plant-based fats for food manufacturers include an increased product shelf life and decreased refrigeration requirement. Partial hydrogenation raises the melting point of fat, producing a semi-solid material, which is much more desirable than liquid oils for use in baking. Plant-based hydrogenated vegetable oils are much less expensive than the animal fats traditionally favored by bakers, such as butter or lard.

Crisco is the first transfat product.

and yes some trans fat (milk) are natural.

IminWonderland · 09-29-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

It was pushed as a replacement of butter and natural fats. "margarine is better for you" then 10 years later, margarine is horrible for you

Crisco is the first transfat product.

and yes some trans fat (milk) are natural.

OK, so which is better for the body? Butter or Margarine? Because I had read that "natural fats" were better, instead of the processed junk, so I switched to Butter, and use real butter (sparingly) instead of margarine (which tastes like shit anyways.)

So, crisco is a Transfat? I never use Crisco, only like, once or twice to butter a pan, I don't really bake with it though...

Ardentfrost · 09-29-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

OK, so which is better for the body? Butter or Margarine? Because I had read that "natural fats" were better, instead of the processed junk, so I switched to Butter, and use real butter (sparingly) instead of margarine (which tastes like shit anyways.)

So, crisco is a Transfat? I never use Crisco, only like, once or twice to butter a pan, I don't really bake with it though...

Butter is far better than margarine, despite margarine's lower fat and cholesterol content. Butter contains good cholesterol (high cholesterol has a lot more to do with cholesterol intake) and not necessarily bad fats (it does contain something like 5% transfat, but it's naturally occuring transfat which isn't near as bad as margarine's manufactured trans fat). Margarine also contains free radicals which causes cancer.

I will never ever use margarine... ever.

Ardentfrost · 09-29-2006, 04:23 PM

Oh, I forgot to talk about shortening...

There are more than just one type of shortening. It can be made from lard or hydrogenated vegetable oil. If you want to make sure you are getting shortening with low trans fat, look for non-hydrogenated kinds... they've become quite popular.

Diesel66 · 09-29-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

OK, so which is better for the body? Butter or Margarine?

Today ? Or a couple years ago or a couple years in the future

SMALL amount of butter or natural vegi oils (olive) are best.

Ardentfrost · 09-29-2006, 04:41 PM

Also, let me add why hydrogenation occurs at all.

Oils occur in three types: unsaturated, mono-unsaturated, or poly-unsaturated. Anyone who has taken chemistry should know the difference, but let's go through them:

Saturated means that all fatty acid chains of the triglyceride are "saturated" with hydrogen... that is, they have no double bonds between the carbons. Visually, these are very straight, kinda like a E (the straight part of the E would be the glyceride and the three legs would be the three fatty acid chains)

Mono- and poly-unsaturated fats have one or more (mono or poly) double bonds in the fatty acid chain of the triglycerides (ie. they are lacking one or more hydrogens in the chain). Visually, the fatty acid chains have kinks in them.

Now, saturated fats (and oils high in saturated fats, like butter) require little to no preservation. They have an extremely long shelf life because they are stable. However, unsaturated fats are just waiting for some free agent to come along and ruin it... this is what causes rancidity.

For these reasons, you should always keep your oils in a dark cool place. Light alone will provide random atoms to cause your oil to go bad. Also, keep an eye on your oil's expiration dates (how unsaturated they are will push the expiration date farther and farther up). And NEVER EVER reuse a fat that has reached smoke point.

Anyhow, on to hydrogenation: manufacturers found that they could take unsaturated fats and introduce hydrogen to them and increase their shelf life. Although this does happen naturally, it doesn't on a very large scale (as I said before, butter has a small amount of naturally occuring hydrogenated fat in it). Most of the time unsaturated fats pull shit like sulfer out of the air and that's just nasty.

ballz2wallz · 10-02-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Most of the time unsaturated fats pull shit like sulfer out of the air and that's just nasty.

Are you sure about that? Perhaps oxygen is more common that sulfure. Oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids occurs quite frequently, especially when they have more than 2 unsaturations. I don't know how much sulfure is in the air. That would cause quite a stink.

Ardentfrost · 10-02-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Are you sure about that? Perhaps oxygen is more common that sulfure. Oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids occurs quite frequently, especially when they have more than 2 unsaturations. I don't know how much sulfure is in the air. That would cause quite a stink.

I shouldn't have said "most of the time" in that context... that is one of the things that it pulls out of the air. But it pulls enough to change the smell.