The big.... Two?

WickedLou9 · 10-24-2008, 02:16 PM

Chrysler to cut 25 percent of salaried work force: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

I think it is just a matter of time. Chrysler is going to go under. They will either be bought by GM or chopped up and sold for parts. This is pretty historic, and not in a good way.

Angus_Aboot · 10-24-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Chrysler to cut 25 percent of salaried work force: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

I think it is just a matter of time. Chrysler is going to go under. They will either be bought by GM or chopped up and sold for parts. This is pretty historic, and not in a good way.

Lets hope they don't get bailed out (again).

WickedLou9 · 10-24-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_Aboot

Lets hope they don't get bailed out (again).

I think if the governmnet gets involved it would be to "facilitate" any merger that might take place. I don't see another bailout happening.

Angus_Aboot · 10-24-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I think if the governmnet gets involved it would be to "facilitate" any merger that might take place.

That sounds...

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I don't see another bailout happening.

I don't know, they just received part of a 25 billion bailout last month and that wasn't even the first. But you may be right.

WickedLou9 · 10-24-2008, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_Aboot

That sounds...

I don't know, they just received part of a 25 billion bailout last month and that wasn't even the first. But you may be right.

The govt definately does not want anyone else going out of business. They will probably guarantee some loans or outstanding debt to sweeten the deal making it less of a risk for GM. It's just a matter of time,

Swift · 10-24-2008, 03:30 PM

Man, that's just not good for working peoplein America period. However, the American car companies have pretty much shot themselves in the foot. Letting the unions run wild, making crappy cars in the 80's and not giving young people a fresh look this decade. Pretty sad actually.

Angus_Aboot · 10-24-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

The govt definately does not want anyone else going out of business. They will probably guarantee some loans or outstanding debt to sweeten the deal making it less of a risk for GM. It's just a matter of time,

Does not sound good, risks shouldn't be artificially sweetened. Leads to further problems.

WickedLou9 · 10-24-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Swift-Bass

Man, that's just not good for working peoplein America period. However, the American car companies have pretty much shot themselves in the foot. Letting the unions run wild, making crappy cars in the 80's and not giving young people a fresh look this decade. Pretty sad actually.

the 80's? CHrysler is still making crappy cars. They had a sort of rennisance in the mid 90's with the new designs, the introduction of the Viper and the new "cab forward design" cars...
But for the past 5 years or so, they have been making pretty much crap. The Chrysler 300 was pretty good. That's about it. The new sebring was junk, the nitro is junk, the caliber is junk, the avenger is junk. Junk junk junk. They probably deserve to go under. I don't think they have a single hybrid on the market. Ford, Gm, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, they all have hybrids for sale. Chrysler? They just keep building more and more cars on teh same crappy platforms. I think there are 3 or 4 different cars built on the Caliber platform.. it's a shitty platform. Why would you reuse it?
Ugh.

Fed Up · 10-24-2008, 05:13 PM

I like your title. Soon it will be the big "0" and I'm not talking about Oscar Robertson here.

We don't make TV's or DVD players here right? Why can't cars be next?

I guess we'll know soon enough, but GM's moves of just introducing more bonds just so they can pay employees salaries and former employees retirement benefit plans isn't a solution.

Wait a second...isn't that what our government's doing?

The Demise of GM and How the Fed Is On the Same Course “As GM Goes, So Goes the Nation” : FedUp!

Fed Up

Photon1001 · 10-24-2008, 05:16 PM

My dad was in upper management at Chrysler, although he's passed on 14 years now, as he would say, the company's run in a very conservative fashion. Coming from him, being a lifelong Republican, even.

HughRuss · 10-24-2008, 05:28 PM

My uncle works at GM (lol?), and on the cusp of his 29th year, they announced they were closing his plant. So, he's now having to move to either Ohio or Michigan in order to get his 30 years in D:

Fed Up · 10-24-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Photon1001

My dad was in upper management at Chrysler, although he's passed on 14 years now, as he would say, the company's run in a very conservative fashion. Coming from him, being a lifelong Republican, even.

So was RCA. But hey...the old radios they made make good collectors items! Maybe the old Chrysler's will go up in value too...

Fed Up

Photon1001 · 10-24-2008, 05:51 PM

^indeed. Really Crappy Always vs Found On Road Dead. Oh, the joys of American politics...

WickedLou9 · 10-27-2008, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

I like your title. Soon it will be the big "0" and I'm not talking about Oscar Robertson here.

We don't make TV's or DVD players here right? Why can't cars be next?

I guess we'll know soon enough, but GM's moves of just introducing more bonds just so they can pay employees salaries and former employees retirement benefit plans isn't a solution.

Wait a second...isn't that what our government's doing?

The Demise of GM and How the Fed Is On the Same Course “As GM Goes, So Goes the Nation” : FedUp!

Fed Up

I don't think Ford will go under. They have some very successful operations in other countries. They sell the focus around the world and thier partnership with Mazda is working out pretty well. They will get through this. They might be smaller and leaner when this is all over, but they will still be around. GM is also global. They might have to restructure at some point but they won't go away. They still have a decent product to sell and people buy thier cars. As long as people are willing to buy thier cars they will be around.

Fed Up · 10-27-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I don't think Ford will go under. They have some very successful operations in other countries. They sell the focus around the world and thier partnership with Mazda is working out pretty well. They will get through this. They might be smaller and leaner when this is all over, but they will still be around. GM is also global. They might have to restructure at some point but they won't go away. They still have a decent product to sell and people buy thier cars. As long as people are willing to buy thier cars they will be around.

They could be taken over by another company, but ufortunately Ford and GM have pension problems that could effect their bottom line moving forward.

While GM has worked to handle the health insurance costs by telling their salaried workers over age 65 we're not giving you benefits any longer, it was at a cost of increased pension payouts.

Here is my speculation FWIW....

Both GM and Ford were barely sqeaking by with their pension payouts. They have to obtain about a 10% return on their plans for them to afford a payout to their current retirees while maintaining value in the plan for future retirees.

If the plan takes a hit, like it did the last time the DOW fell to 7400, it will be difficult to recover from. This year, I imagine, they are taking a big hit, but we won't hear about it till next year or the year after when the ERISA 5500 has to be filed (GM and Ford use a calender fiscal year). GM hasn't even turned in their 2006 salaried employee 5500 yet and their hourly employees pension plan lost 1.3 billion in 2006. 2007 would have been a decent year (unless they had real estate investments) and 2008 might just have lost them 4 billion or more (after a start of 20 billion), because about every investment other than cash has been hit hard this year.

Within the next 2 years we'll know how bad it was, and whether these companies can weather this storm. If we have a prolonged deflationary period, ala Japan, things don't look good for Automakers even with some sales to other countries, who by the way, are experiencing their own restraints on consumer spending because of this current worldwide recession.

Europe: France 24 | Bordeaux Ford factory to shut down due to poor sales | France 24

U.S.: September worst auto sales month since 1993 - Autos - MSNBC.com

Asia: Ford losing ground in Asia-Pacific region - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

But hey...I hear the U.S. Government is good at managing companies and bringing them to profitability! It's worked out great with our rail system eh?

JMHO,

Fed Up

WickedLou9 · 10-28-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_Aboot

That sounds...

I don't know, they just received part of a 25 billion bailout last month and that wasn't even the first. But you may be right.

GM seeks $10 billion in aid for merger: sources - Yahoo! News

Here it comes.

Fed Up · 10-28-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

GM seeks $10 billion in aid for merger: sources - Yahoo! News

Here it comes.

CNBC was just discussing this. Some of the commentators actually said "let them fail."

This is what it's coming down to. The Fed just can't keep bailing out every company, and other nations banks.

IMO, something's got to give.

A poor business doesn't deserve to be bailed out with U.S. taxpayer dollars IMO. Neither do other nations banks.

I guess we could blame it all on Johannes Guttenberg, but that would be taking the easy way out!

GM may or may not make it, but did you see what happened with Volkswagen stock today? Wowsa! What a ride some people (and shorts) took. Earlier in the day it had a market cap larger than Exxon! Volkswagen shares jump and short-sellers pounce - International Herald Tribune Talk about your short squeeze!

Fed Up

WickedLou9 · 10-28-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

CNBC was just discussing this. Some of the commentators actually said "let them fail."

This is what it's coming down to. The Fed just can't keep bailing out every company, and other nations banks.

IMO, something's got to give.

A poor business doesn't deserve to be bailed out with U.S. taxpayer dollars IMO. Neither do other nations banks.

I guess we could blame it all on Johannes Guttenberg, but that would be taking the easy way out!

GM may or may not make it, but did you see what happened with Volkswagen stock today? Wowsa! What a ride some people (and shorts) took. Earlier in the day it had a market cap larger than Exxon! Volkswagen shares jump and short-sellers pounce - International Herald Tribune Talk about your short squeeze!

Fed Up

At least it's not a total bailout. Chrysler is failing and we are letting them get swallowed up by GM. There will be thousands of jobs lost, plants closed, etc. So it's not like we gave them a golden bailout. No matter how you slice it, Chrysler is gone and nothing is going to save them. GM will probably keep the Jeep brand, because it still sells OK. I'm not sure what they will do with the rest of it.

Angus_Aboot · 10-28-2008, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

At least it's not a total bailout. Chrysler is failing and we are letting them get swallowed up by GM. There will be thousands of jobs lost, plants closed, etc. So it's not like we gave them a golden bailout. No matter how you slice it, Chrysler is gone and nothing is going to save them. GM will probably keep the Jeep brand, because it still sells OK. I'm not sure what they will do with the rest of it.

I hope GM gets rid of the rest, its crap anyways.

Fed Up · 10-28-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

At least it's not a total bailout. Chrysler is failing and we are letting them get swallowed up by GM. There will be thousands of jobs lost, plants closed, etc. So it's not like we gave them a golden bailout. No matter how you slice it, Chrysler is gone and nothing is going to save them. GM will probably keep the Jeep brand, because it still sells OK. I'm not sure what they will do with the rest of it.

My next vehicle may be a jeep.

That or a used Aston Martin...Solway Grey (hey...I'd be supporting Ford if they still owned them!)...

Fed Up