The Mideast Peace Talks

Donkey® · 07-26-2006, 01:28 PM

Nobody interested in this anymore? Two things that stuck out at me today. 1st, why is it the United States seems to be the only country at this point supporting Israel? 2nd, Israel is being accused of taking out a UN monitoring bunker on purpose.

1: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...onf/index.html

2: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

For the first issue...why we keep digging ourselves further and further into the hole of international hate for our hardheadedness for ONE fucking country, i'll never understand.

For the second issue...now that both sides are officially terrorists and striking civilians at will, there will be no more complaints from the Zionist supporters about civilians being killed by suicide bombing, correct? Probably not. By the way, I also saw on FOX I believe it was two ambulances shot up and bombed by Israel. Guess they had to make sure those terrorists get no medical care.

ballz2wallz · 07-26-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Nobody interested in this anymore? Two things that stuck out at me today. 1st, why is it the United States seems to be the only country at this point supporting Israel? 2nd, Israel is being accused of taking out a UN monitoring bunker on purpose.

1: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...onf/index.html

2: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

For the first issue...why we keep digging ourselves further and further into the hole of international hate for our hardheadedness for ONE fucking country, i'll never understand.

For the second issue...now that both sides are officially terrorists and striking civilians at will, there will be no more complaints from the Zionist supporters about civilians being killed by suicide bombing, correct? Probably not. By the way, I also saw on FOX I believe it was two ambulances shot up and bombed by Israel. Guess they had to make sure those terrorists get no medical care.

isn't the US always the only one that supports israel the way it does?

secondly, why do you even continue to ask 'why is the US the only one...', when it's what makes us different from the rest of the world that makes us so great? if we did what everyone else did, we'd not be the one that stands out as a great and wonderful country.

greatness does not come from followers, it comes from leaders.

Donkey® · 07-26-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

isn't the US always the only one that supports israel the way it does?

secondly, why do you even continue to ask 'why is the US the only one...', when it's what makes us different from the rest of the world that makes us so great? if we did what everyone else did, we'd not be the one that stands out as a great and wonderful country.

greatness does not come from followers, it comes from leaders.

I see. So if that is the case, why aren't we the only ones supporting North Korea? You know, to be different? I see how we're different about most things....like Global Warming....but sometimes, don't you think a lost cause is a lost cause?

motivez · 07-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Iran is getting their wish of becoming a reigonal power through what is essentially a proxy war I think. Not something that's new when you look back at much of the war in the last 40ish years though.

Kofi Annan came out and said that any solution to the peace should involve Iran and Syria which is a position the US doesn't share, since neither of them were invited to Rome to discuss it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/...ng_diplomacy_5

ballz2wallz · 07-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I see. So if that is the case, why aren't we the only ones supporting North Korea? You know, to be different? I see how we're different about most things....like Global Warming....but sometimes, don't you think a lost cause is a lost cause?

cause they have supporters already

motivez · 07-26-2006, 06:01 PM

To further illustrate my my point about Iran:

Putin and Ahmadinejad discuss Mideast crises
Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:33am ET143

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad discussed the Israeli offensive in Lebanon and Iran's nuclear program with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin said on Wednesday.

"The crisis situation surrounding Lebanon was at the center of discussion," the Kremlin press service said of the telephone conversation late on Tuesday. "Different aspects of resolving the Iranian nuclear program were also touched upon."

"On both topics, Vladimir Putin stated the fundamental position of the Russian side," it said.

Russia has called for a ceasefire in Lebanon and criticized the Israeli attacks, saying they went beyond the anti-Hizbollah military operation the Jewish state said it was conducting.

Russia is one of six powers that want Iran to respond to an offer of incentives in exchange for Tehran stopping uranium enrichment. Unlike the United States and some other Western powers, it says it is too early to talk about economic or other sanctions against Tehran.

The telephone exchange took place at Ahmadinejad's request.

Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday during a visit to Tajikistan that the conflict between Lebanon and Israel could sweep through the entire Middle East like a hurricane.

The United States and key European countries fear Iran's nuclear activity is a cover for bomb making. Tehran says it has a right to civilian nuclear power and that its nuclear program is aimed only at producing electricity.

7960 · 07-26-2006, 06:09 PM

There's been enough talk already. It's time to let israel loose and let them do what they've been wanting to do for decades, and that's wipe out any living thing within 500 miles of their land to create a buffer between them and the next closest religion. I'd be all for it if the dropped a line of bombs 1 mile away, then 1.5 miles, then 2 miles.........and kept going until hezbolebanohammas either moved or died.

BTW, why didn't anyone care when hezbollah fired on UN Peacekeepers 3 days ago?

http://www.regnum.ru/english/accidents/677973.html

6SpeedTA95 · 07-26-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

There's been enough talk already. It's time to let israel loose and let them do what they've been wanting to do for decades, and that's wipe out any living thing within 500 miles of their land to create a buffer between them and the next closest religion. I'd be all for it if the dropped a line of bombs 1 mile away, then 1.5 miles, then 2 miles.........and kept going until hezbolebanohammas either moved or died.

BTW, why didn't anyone care when hezbollah fired on UN Peacekeepers 3 days ago?

http://www.regnum.ru/english/accidents/677973.html

The media simply chose not to report it. Hezbollah probably fired on them on purpose, Israel does it by mistake and the world crawls up their ass about it. CNN, FOX and the major networks were all over Israel doing interviews about why they hit the "peacekeepers" yet as you said a terrorist does it and everyone turns a blind eye

motivez · 07-26-2006, 06:16 PM

Looks like it's filed under "accidents"?

Also, if they decided to go with your plan the civilian casualties would be much more numerous than they are now, and the Lebanese people have already suffered many more casualties of innocent people than the Israeli's (much in the same way the # of Palestinian deaths far exceeds # of Israeli deaths in this 'conflict').. and that's with Israel purposely trying to avoid civilian deaths.

If it's fair to kill innocent people to obtain a strategic goal, surely you don't have a problem with Hezbollah firing rockets into the midst of a civilian population either?

ballz2wallz · 07-26-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Looks like it's filed under "accidents"?

i doubt israel did it on purpose either

7960 · 07-26-2006, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

If it's fair to kill innocent people to obtain a strategic goal, surely you don't have a problem with Hezbollah firing rockets into the midst of a civilian population either?

That's why I said start close and push them back.

motivez · 07-26-2006, 08:23 PM

What about the ordinary population who lives there though? They don't have a right to live there simply because they have no desire / means to toss out Hezbollah?

Being neutral is different than being complicit or active in a conflict, I think.

If Israel occupies land in another Arab state it would lead to many more problems, I think. Having an international force that can maintain the peace in that area would be a bettter solution

7960 · 07-26-2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

What about the ordinary population who lives there though? They don't have a right to live there simply because they have no desire / means to toss out Hezbollah?

Being neutral is different than being complicit or active in a conflict, I think.

While I sort of agree, I also think they *do* have a responsibility to out hezbollah/hamas if they want to live where they are because israel also has the right to live without having rockets rain down on their civilians from these "palestinian" areas.

motivez · 07-26-2006, 09:31 PM

I agree, they do.. but when you have an organization that provides services like hospitals, schools, etc.. to the public, and is widely popular for being viewed as "liberators" of Lebanon.. you can't expect a general public to view it the same way we do with an American perspective on it.

I don't think the responsibility is really to "oust" them but rather change them into a political organization that renounces violence and uses political tools to further their ultimate goals (prisoner exchange in this case)

7960 · 07-26-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think the responsibility is really to "oust" them but rather change them into a political organization that renounces violence and uses political tools to further their ultimate goals (prisoner exchange in this case)

you didn't just say "prisoner exchange" would qualify as having renounced violence, do you?

remember, they got their "prisoners" by killing some soldiers and kidnapping others. By definition this can not be an exchange because it started as a hostage situation.

motivez · 07-26-2006, 09:55 PM

No, I'm not saying that what they did here counts as having renounced violence.. What they did here is obviously a violent act, taking prisoners on a raid.

I'm saying the people should pressure them to use political, rather than violent / militant methods to exchange prisoners in the scenerio about people having a responsibility to "oust" Hezbollah

Donkey® · 07-26-2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

There's been enough talk already. It's time to let israel loose and let them do what they've been wanting to do for decades, and that's wipe out any living thing within 500 miles of their land to create a buffer between them and the next closest religion. I'd be all for it if the dropped a line of bombs 1 mile away, then 1.5 miles, then 2 miles.........and kept going until hezbolebanohammas either moved or died.

BTW, why didn't anyone care when hezbollah fired on UN Peacekeepers 3 days ago?

[url]http://www.regnum.ru/english/accidents/677973.html

This reminds me. Israel wants to create a 1.2 mile "buffer" into Lebanese land. Why don't they make a 10 mile "buffer" out of their own land? And really....what the fuck is a 1.2 mile buffer even going to accomplish?

Also...I think there is a HUGE difference between an outpost getting hit in the middle of a battle and a plane taking out a bunker after they were warned 10 times not to.

archangel003 · 07-27-2006, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This reminds me. Israel wants to create a 1.2 mile "buffer" into Lebanese land. Why don't they make a 10 mile "buffer" out of their own land? And really....what the fuck is a 1.2 mile buffer even going to accomplish?

That's 1.2 miles of Israeli land that they take out of range of Hezbollah MLRS systems.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Also...I think there is a HUGE difference between an outpost getting hit in the middle of a battle and a plane taking out a bunker after they were warned 10 times not to.

So do I, but you also know as well as I do that that's not what happened.

Donkey® · 07-27-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

That's 1.2 miles of Israeli land that they take out of range of Hezbollah MLRS systems.

But in the grand scheme of things...what difference does that make? And how about answering my question...why doesn't Israel just move all their people within 10 miles of their border back into the center of the country? There is a simple way to get themselves a nice buffer zone.

Originally Posted by archangel003

So do I, but you also know as well as I do that that's not what happened.

Really? Links? I saw one link from some obscure source that had no details.

archangel003 · 07-27-2006, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

But in the grand scheme of things...what difference does that make? And how about answering my question...why doesn't Israel just move all their people within 10 miles of their border back into the center of the country? There is a simple way to get themselves a nice buffer zone.

Because the center of the country is in the West Bank.

Since when is Israel obligated to curl up in a ball and retreat from its own territory?

"Appease the terrorists and they'll stop killing us!"

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Really? Links? I saw one link from some obscure source that had no details.

Israeli artillery hits the UN base due to negligence and you flip shit. Hezbollah guerrillas rake the UN base with intentional machine gun fire and you're silent. We know where you stand.