Mexican GOVERNMENT to protest US border fence

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Very well said,,,, I wish I had those clapping hands I saw in another thread,,,I post 2 of them.

I wish I had two extra hands, so I could give 4 thumbs up!

BTW, if you post those clapping smilies in the suggestion box, they will be smilies for us in no time...all you gotta do is ask!

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I wish I had two extra hands, so I could give 4 thumbs up!

BTW, if you post those clapping smilies in the suggestion box, they will be smilies for us in no time...all you gotta do is ask!

Im on my wayyy.....

Damn the posters on this thread have amazed me today,,, you guys ROCK

[MoTaVa]

Originally Posted by JaJae

We have a million and one reasons to do this ...

Only a million and one? I heard it was more like twelve million. But look on the bright side, only about twenty five thousand of each one million are fugitives and criminals. Wait strike that....they are illegal immigrants, so I guess one hundred percent are criminals. My bad.

I say no wall though, its an ugly image that will teach young people the wrong ideas. There is a way to fix the problem and make money at the same time.
Step 1. Pass laws imposing stiff penalties on employers hiring illegals. Including fines, coverage of deportation costs, jail, probation, and community service. Not one or some of those, all of those. The idea is to make it a very dangerous game to hire illegals.
Step 2. Launch a massive ad campaign to educate the public that new migrant worker laws are in place and encourage them to police their communities.
Step 3. Set up a 1-800 tip line. Investigators can be dispatched locally.
Step 4. Initiate President Bush's guest worker program to fill the void the will open up as a result of my plan. Then we will know exactly who is who.

If they cant work they cant eat and then we would be a lot less of an attractive destination.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

This still doesn't answer the question of whether illegals are a net benefit for the economy.

What good has come from them thus far, that doesn't have some sort of ruin attached to it?

Not all the cheap strawberries in the world can make up for the fact that now in Southern California, low-middle income AMERICAN Families, are shit out of luck using programs that their tax dollars pay for because the government is too busy helping illegal immigrants take care of what everyone is expected to take care of.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

This still doesn't answer the question of whether illegals are a net benefit for the economy.

if there is a net benefit, the same benefit will be there with legals. I dont see anyone saying they dont want mexican nationals here to work, just want it to be legal. So if they were all legal, the net benefit would be the same. Right?

[MoTaVa]

It did start with cheap produce, but it has gotten way out of hand. It needs to be stopped and reversed. I advocate sending all illegals back. Might be an unpopular view, but its mine and you cant touch it.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

It did start with cheap produce, but it has gotten way out of hand. It needs to be stopped and reversed. I advocate sending all illegals back. Might be an unpopular view, but its mine and you cant touch it.

A fence works both ways,,, I can hear it now..."I couldnt leave they built this fence....

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

if there is a net benefit, the same benefit will be there with legals.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Who is to say what a legal plan would look like? One obvious difference is that illegals are often paid less than legal workers, so who knows the economic impact of that.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Who is to say what a legal plan would look like? One obvious difference is that illegals are often paid less than legal workers, so who knows the economic impact of that.

if they are willing to work for what they are getting now,,,, what is the problem? If they are not and an American worker takes the job because now it pays more, then I would say we win either way.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

What good has come from them thus far, that doesn't have some sort of ruin attached to it?

I'm sure there are pluses and minuses, which is why I asked if there was a net economic gain from illegals.

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Not all the cheap strawberries in the world can make up for the fact that now in Southern California, low-middle income AMERICAN Families, are shit out of luck using programs that their tax dollars pay for because the government is too busy helping illegal immigrants take care of what everyone is expected to take care of.

This is purely anecdotal. I'd like to see a real, well-researched answer as to whether illegals are a net gain for the US economically. Surely someone has conducted a study.

And you're trivializing the work that illegals do with strawberries. There are illegals out the wazoo, for example, working in major oil refineries in Texas, which subcontractors hire. I've seen this with my own eyes from work I was previously invovled in. They're also involved heavily in the construction industry, hospitality, restaurant, etc. Although we subsidize them with our taxes, certainly we're also benefiting from their cheap labor.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm sure there are pluses and minuses, which is why I asked if there was a net economic gain from illegals.



This is purely anecdotal. I'd like to see a real, well-researched answer as to whether illegals are a net gain for the US economically. Surely someone has conducted a study.

And you're trivializing the work that illegals do with strawberries. There are illegals out the wazoo, for example, working in major oil refineries in Texas, which subcontractors hire. I've seen this with my own eyes from work I was previously invovled in. They're also involved heavily in the construction industry.

And did I mention heavily...

[MoTaVa]

The cons clearly out number the pros here.

I watched a news story the other day about a fireman that was demoted from a supervisory position because he doesnt speak spanish.

I am a carpenter. I live in Virginia. Most of the crews around here are mexican now and most speak little to no english. I have seen with my own eyes the devastating effect this has had on the blue collar workers wages in this area.

Our jails are choked with non english speakers. I assure you that there families are NOT contributing to the tax base to help maintain that jail, but I am.

We have immagrant kids in school slowing everything down because they dont speak english. My kids do speak english and they should not have to wait for Julio to catch up before they can move on.

I went to a japanesse steak house the other day and my chef was a mexican....he couldnt speak english. That was just wierd, I didnt know wether to laugh or be insulted that they didnt think people would notice the difference.

I was in line at 7-11 earlier this year and the cashier was a Czech with very poor english, the customer in front of me was a non english speaking mexican. When he got to the counter you should have seen the two trying to communicate in english and count back change. It was funny for about 3 seconds, then completely irratating.

I dont think cheap labor is helping the economy in anyway. In fact I'd say its hurting us very much. Lower pay means less money being spent. That in turn drives prices up.

I see absolutely no good in the situation as it is today. Maybe back 30 years ago before it was epidemic, but now its just cancer.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm sure there are pluses and minuses, which is why I asked if there was a net economic gain from illegals.



This is purely anecdotal. I'd like to see a real, well-researched answer as to whether illegals are a net gain for the US economically. Surely someone has conducted a study.

And you're trivializing the work that illegals do with strawberries. There are illegals out the wazoo, for example, working in major oil refineries in Texas, which subcontractors hire. I've seen this with my own eyes from work I was previously invovled in. They're also involved heavily in the construction industry, hospitality, restaurant, etc. Although we subsidize them with our taxes, certainly we're also benefiting from their cheap labor.

Don't bother lecturing me where they work. No shit they are working construction, HUNDREDS stand outside of EVERY Home Depot, Lowe's, and independent Home Improvement store EVERY morning waiting to get picked up for work.

Hospitality? Yeah, do you realize that working Front Desk, Room Service, and Hotel Kitchen jobs used to be jobs for AMERICANS starting out. It was a platform to move up. Now....Illegals make these jobs their careers.

Restraunts....This might be anectodal, but I don't give a crap because until you live the reality, you don't realize what the reality actually is. I went to visit my Mom in her small town in Arizona. She took us out to breakfast to this small coffee shop which bragged the "best gravy in town." We walked in, and My husband and I both stared with WIDE EYES. Everyone that worked there was WHITE. They were all Americans. The busser was a woman about 30. The guy in the kitchen was an older gentleman. The waitress was in her late 20s. All AMERICANS working in those "jobs Americans won't do."



This is the problem. It cost a certain amount to LIVE. And jobs like the one's you describe, those jobs are jobs that AMERICANS used to do, but because employers can get away with paying Mexicans shit, they don't have to pay an American a fair wage. Those people in the restraunts, they can all work, and feed their families. Living doesnt have to cost that much. But it cost alot where I live now and it's partly because of these illegals.

The thing is, is that Americans have a standard for living and working. Mexicans don't because their "great country" (which many stick up for, and are loyal to) is a shit hole to live in. And they come here, they milk and leech off our system (which is here to help AMERICANS), and meanwhile the government looks the other way and hands out checks, the employers get away with paying little payroll tax and gipping their workers on the benefits that Americans are entitiled to when they work, and the American Citizen foots the bill.

This is not right no matter who benefits however, because the people that SHOULD be benifitting DO NOT benefit. The average American citizen should be the benificiary to our tax money and our government programs, not these border crossing illegal aliens, who don't even have the decency to assimilate into our culture.

You don't know until you live it. I live it. Daily.


Oh, and did you know that you also get to pay for Illegal Immigrants to go to college? Did you know that they get free college tuition, fee waivers, and financial Aid, and they aren't even citizens?

This is absolute crap.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by MoTaVa

The cons clearly out number the pros here.

I watched a news story the other day about a fireman that was demoted from a supervisory position because he doesnt speak spanish.

I am a carpenter. I live in Virginia. Most of the crews around here are mexican now and most speak little to no english. I have seen with my own eyes the devastating effect this has had on the blue collar workers wages in this area.

Our jails are choked with non english speakers. I assure you that there families are NOT contributing to the tax base to help maintain that jail, but I am.

We have immagrant kids in school slowing everything down because they dont speak english. My kids do speak english and they should not have to wait for Julio to catch up before they can move on.

I went to a japanesse steak house the other day and my chef was a mexican....he couldnt speak english. That was just wierd, I didnt know wether to laugh or be insulted that they didnt think people would notice the difference.

I was in line at 7-11 earlier this year and the cashier was a Czech with very poor english, the customer in front of me was a non english speaking mexican. When he got to the counter you should have seen the two trying to communicate in english and count back change. It was funny for about 3 seconds, then completely irratating.

I dont think cheap labor is helping the economy in anyway. In fact I'd say its hurting us very much. Lower pay means less money being spent. That in turn drives prices up.

I see absolutely no good in the situation as it is today. Maybe back 30 years ago before it was epidemic, but now its just cancer.

Wait 20 years, and you'll really hate life.

[MoTaVa]

I had forgot to mention the Home Depot traffic jam, TY.

Dam that crap pisses me off.....I aree with you whole heartedly IminWonderland.

[motivez]

So does anyone actually have any data to backup their assertions about whether or not it helps/hurts the economy overall?

I see a lot of "I don't think" or "I believe", but not a lot of "Statistics show..."

A recent study by economists at the University of North Carolina found that Hispanic residents, 45% of whom were undocumented, contributed $9.2 billion in spending to North Carolina's economy in 2004. By taking the least desirable jobs, says John Kasarda, a co-author of the study, "they have kept some industries competitive that would have gone to Mexico and China."

On the positive side, the overall economic effect was estimated at more than $9 billion, through purchases, taxes and labor. If immigration trends continue at their current pace, the effect could increase to $18 billion within three years, according to the study.

The findings on tax revenues and cost of services paint another picture. Although Hispanics - including those here illegally - contributed $756 million annually in direct and indirect taxes, they cost the state budget $817 million in the fields of education, health care and corrections. In other words, the Hispanic population costs the state about $61 million annually.

Johnson said that what some people tend to forget is the indirect effect that the Hispanic worker has had on consumer prices. If everyone without proper immigration visas were deported, U.S. consumers would have to prepare to pay more for such ordinary goods as food and housing.

For example, the construction industry in North Carolina would pay about $1 billion more in labor costs without the Hispanic worker, according to the study.

"The next time you go to a restaurant and see a Hispanic busing the tables, just put an extra $20 on the table, because that's how much more your meal will cost," Johnson said.

So, there's some statistics we can argue over instead of feelings.

Essentially, they're contributing billions each year.. but do cost the state money.

So, again.. if the net effect is that the state benefits, prices are kept low on consumer goods, etc.. why do we want that to stop?

Obviously we have an interest in knowing who's here, and why they're here, and make sure they pay the taxes they should, etc, etc.. but seems to me like we're sort of wanting it both ways.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by motivez

So does anyone actually have any data to backup their assertions about whether or not it helps/hurts the economy overall?

I see a lot of "I don't think" or "I believe", but not a lot of "Statistics show..."





So, there's some statistics we can argue over instead of feelings.

Essentially, they're contributing billions each year.. but do cost the state money.

So, again.. if the net effect is that the state benefits, prices are kept low on consumer goods, etc.. why do we want that to stop?

Obviously we have an interest in knowing who's here, and why they're here, and make sure they pay the taxes they should, etc, etc.. but seems to me like we're sort of wanting it both ways.

No wanting it both ways here. I want them out, and I'm willing to pay $1 a tomato for it.

[KatKanPlay]

How much has to change if they become legal or guest worker status as opposed to illegal?