Political Simpleton (Obama's Eligibility)

[BillDixon]

What's going on with the "Obama Eligibility" Stories?
This is big and it's hardly posted anywhere. !

http://www.politicalsimpleton.com

[BillDixon]

If he is a natural born citizen....why the h*ll is he trying to stop the inquirey?

[avsp]

just to aid ppl a bit
U.S. Supreme Court Justices to Meet to Discuss Obama Eligibility | InjuryBoard Tallahassee
this one is
Leo C. Donofrio, Applicant v.Nina Mitchell Wells, New Jersey Secretary of State & the cited link within doesnt give the 5th Dec date but I may be missing something yes it does I'm stupid

Barack Obama Seeks To Block Discovery in Citizenship Lawsuit | InjuryBoard Tallahassee
this one is about Berg vs Obama

& of no help to me really

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

&
Natural-born citizen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by wikipedia, ..., i know i know not definitive but, ..., etc

Supreme Court cases relating to citizenship, generally



Although the U.S. Supreme Court has never specifically determined the meaning of "natural born Citizen," they have occasionally considered the matter in passing.

• Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857): In regard to the "natural born citizen" clause, the dissent states that it is acquired by place of birth (jus soli), not through blood or lineage (jus sanguinis): "The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, 'a natural born citizen.' It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth." (Much of the majority opinion in this case was overturned by the 14th Amendment in 1868.)
• United States v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649: Some have suggested that this decision calls into question the natural born citizenship status of children born of non-U.S. citizens in the United States, or of the children born outside the United States to U.S. citizen parents.
• Perkins v. ELG, 307 U.S. 325 (1939): The US Supreme Court found that a Miss Elg, born of one naturalized US citizen and one foreigner, a Swedish citizen, in Brooklyn, New York was a citizen of the United States. It was somewhat vague about whether she was a natural born citizen or not. By contrast, this decision noted that a Mr. Steinkauler, born in St. Louis, Missouri to two U.S. citizen parents (at least one a naturalized citizen born in Prussia) was a "native-born citizen".
• Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964): The Court voided a statute that provided that a naturalized citizen should lose his United States citizenship if, following naturalization, he resided continuously for three years in his former homeland. "We start from the premise that the rights of citizenship of the native-born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the 'natural born' citizen is eligible to be President."

[edit] Cases in other courts relating specifically to the "natural born citizen" clause

Three United States District Courts have ruled that private citizens do not have standing to challenge the eligibility of candidates to appear on a presidential election ballot: Robinson v. Bowen, 567 F. Supp. 2d 1144 (N.D. Cal. 2008); Hollander v. McCain, 2008WL2853250 (D.N.H. 2008); Berg v. Obama, 08-04083 (E.D. Pa. 2008)[11]. In dicta in each of these cases, it was also opined that if the plaintiffs did have standing, the likelihood of success on the merits (which is part of the legal test for the issuance of a preliminary injunction) would be low. The opinion in one of the cases also cited to a statutory method[12] by which the eligibility of the President-elect to take office may be challenged in Congress. There are several active federal and state lawsuits against Obama charging that he is not a natural born citizen, and therefore ineligible to hold the office of President ofthe United States.[13]

[avsp]

IIUC individuals cant challenge this only congress can & that the basis of Obama action on the Berg one

The media are carrying the story
obama natural born citizen supreme court - Google News

Dorofrio objection hinghes on the nationality of his father & draws comparison with the original framers of the constitution & why they had to have a get out clause
Obama Natural Born Citizen?, Leo Donofrio explains, Donofrio lawsuit, US Supreme Court Appeal, Obama not eligible, Obama’s father Kenyan, Donofrio interprets Constitution « Citizen Wells

presumably LL has already covered all this in detail anyway?

[HughRuss]

Zomg Obama is a charlatan, impeach! Impale on a spit! ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG

[Phantom]

My understanding is that people are questioning the authenticity of his birth certificate.

Is there any evidence that his birth certificate is somehow not authentic? It seems like pure speculation to me.

[Photon1001]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Is there any evidence that his birth certificate is somehow not authentic?

No.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

Hawaii officials declare Obama birth certificate genuine | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser

[avsp]

Storm in a tescup?

The Donofrio is the one up for discussion in the SC today

His claims that the 'grandfather clause' prove his point seem flawed to me. The clause in fact supports the view that any person born on US soil is a 'natural born citizen'. Otherwise why would the clause have been needed?
As for the question of dual citizenship or the possible relevance of the parents citizenship, why didnt the framers expressly mention it if that was their intent?

Either way imagine the consequences if the SC were to rule that Obama isnt eligible
to be president. America would burn.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by avsp

Storm in a tescup?

The Donofrio is the one up for discussion in the SC today

His claims that the 'grandfather clause' prove his point seem flawed to me. The clause in fact supports the view that any person born on US soil is a 'natural born citizen'. Otherwise why would the clause have been needed?
As for the question of dual citizenship or the possible relevance of the parents citizenship, why didnt the framers expressly mention it if that was their intent?

Either way imagine the consequences if the SC were to rule that Obama isnt eligible
to be president. America would burn.

I think there would be a revolution, given the large margin that he won by.

[Photon1001]

Originally Posted by avsp

America would burn.

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I think there would be a revolution, given the large margin that he won by.

Thats what these ppl want. A chance to live out their X-Box fantasies.

YouTube - Shattered Union

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by avsp

His claims that the 'grandfather clause' prove his point seem flawed to me. The clause in fact supports the view that any person born on US soil is a 'natural born citizen'. Otherwise why would the clause have been needed?
As for the question of dual citizenship or the possible relevance of the parents citizenship, why didnt the framers expressly mention it if that was their intent?

The clause was instituted (I believe) after the Civil War to give all freed slaves citizenship since they were all born on American Soil --it was the easiest way to go about it.

[avsp]

Originally Posted by HughRuss

The clause was instituted (I believe) after the Civil War to give all freed slaves citizenship since they were all born on American Soil --it was the easiest way to go about it.

My understanding is that the 'grandfather clause' is the bolded part & exists soley to allow for there to be the first generation of presidents as they'd all fail the test that is in italics. Possibly your refering to some other part of the constitution

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States

My view was that as the bolded part was needed then Obama being born on US soil is eligible

However here is an interesting take on the original meaning of the phrase 'natural born citizen' & its application. I've no idea if Vatel is correct or has any standing but argueing over what 'natural born citizen' meant exactly to the framers of the constitution seems fair enough
200812052877 | The Donofrio Natural Born Citizen Challenge before Supreme Court Today | / | Editorial

Corroborative to this case, the Constitution's Article 1, Section 8, Clause 10 states that a power of Congress is to "define and punish... offenses against the law of nations." The Law of Nations has been international law, which as documented by Emmerich de Vatel (1758) states, in Chapter XIX, paragraph 212, "The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights."

IIUC Donofrio belives McCain isnt eligible either.

Either way its unlikely to amount to much apart from giving those opposed to Obama a grievence, a rallying call. How the SC deal with this will be inrteresting, ..., tho' confusion reigns over if they even will do so & interpreting the docket etc

Its noticible that even those who claim to be backing Donofrio seem to be fixated upon the birth certificate which his case doest rest on. His rests on the citizenship of his father at Obamas birth & the meaning to the framers of the phrase 'natural born citizen'

Donofrio's blog Natural Born Citizen

[SoFlaJDM]

so much for that, huh?

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth. The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election.
Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth — his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject — he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.
Donofrio also contends that two other candidates, Republican John McCain and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero, also are not natural-born citizens and thus ineligible to be president.
At least one other appeal over Obama's citizenship remains at the court. Philip J. Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa., argues that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii as Obama says and the Hawaii secretary of state has confirmed.
Berg says Obama also may be a citizen of Indonesia, where he lived as a boy. Federal courts in Pennsylvania have dismissed Berg's lawsuit. Federal courts in Ohio and Washington state have rejected similar lawsuits.
Allegations raised on the Internet say the birth certificate, showing that Obama was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961, is a fake.
But state officials in Hawaii say they checked health department records and have determined there's no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.
The nonpartisan Web site Factcheck.org examined the original document and said it does have a raised seal and the usual evidence of a genuine document.
In addition, Factcheck.org reproduced an announcement of Obama's birth, including his parents' address in Honolulu, that was published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961.


so basically more garbage from the GOP

[Photon1001]

CAN OBAMA BE PRESIDENT?

It seems that Barack Obama is not qualified to be president after all for the following reason:

Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between "December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986?

Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. citizen parents, which of course is what exempts John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal. US Law very clearly stipulates: ".If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16." Barack Obama's father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama's mother was only 18 when Obama was born, which means though she had been a U.S. citizen for 10 years, (or citizen perhaps because of Hawai'i being a territory) the mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama's birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn't matter *after*.

In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship. At most, there were only 2 years elapsed since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama's birth when she was 18 in Hawai'i. His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama's birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen. As aformentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Cizen parent. Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

*** Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. ***

Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, all the other info does not matter because his mother is the one who needed to have been a U.S. citzen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16. Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the country for some time to protect any citizenship he would have had, rather than living in Indonesia.

Now you can see why Obama's aides stopped his speech about how we technically have more than 50 states, because it would have led to this discovery. This is very clear cut and a blaring violation of U.S. election law. I think the Gov. of California would be very insterested in knowing this if Obama were elected President without being a natural-born U.S. citizen, and it would set precedence. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several days.



Comments: False. Barack Obama is, in fact, a natural-born citizen of the United States, for the simple reason that he was born on American soil (in Hawaii, two years after it acquired statehood). The age and citizenship status of Obama's parents at the time have no bearing on Obama's own citizenship.

Any confusion on this point is the result of misunderstanding the legal concepts of jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of birthplace). Here's how the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service explains the difference:

The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizenship at birth to almost all individuals born in the United States or in U.S. jurisdictions, according to the principle of jus soli. Certain individuals born in the United States, such as children of foreign heads of state or children of foreign diplomats, do not obtain U.S. citizenship under jus soli.

Certain individuals born outside of the United States are born citizens because of their parents, according to the principle of jus sanguinis (which holds that the country of citizenship of a child is the same as that of his / her parents).

It is a fact that under the provisions of Article Two of the U.S. Constitution naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of president, but this disqualification does not apply to Barack Obama, who has been a citizen since birth.

UPDATE: Is Barack Obama's birth certificate invalid?
Self-styled "experts" have questioned the validity of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate as posted online, but after examining the actual physical document, investigators at Factcheck.org (Annenberg Public Policy Center) concluded it is authentic. The state of Hawaii has also affirmed its validity. Read the details...

UPDATE: Berg v. Obama lawsuit dismissed
A federal lawsuit filed in Pennsylvania by attorney Philip J. Berg charged that Obama was either born or naturalized in a foreign country and is therefore ineligible for the office of President. The case was thrown out of court on Friday, October 24, 2008 by U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick, who concluded in his decision that Berg's arguments were, among other things, "frivolous and not worthy of discussion." Read the details...

[link]

I think that red part explains it all. Pointless, feeble, pathetic attempt to get another useless actor from the Red team into the white house... Seriously, they really need to give it up, the Blue Dogs will welcome all and a one party system is really the way to go, and to those who think differently, the so-called "third" parties stand to gain a great deal in terms of influence, with the faux "bipartisanship" charade out of the way.