Current US Commander of Iraq met Murtha and said they had almost identical beliefs

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 03:14 AM

"General John Abizaid, commander of all U.S. forces in the Middle East, you quote him as saying privately a year ago that the U.S. should start cutting its troops in Iraq. You report that he told some close Army friends, quote, 'We’ve gotta get the fuck out.' And then this past March, General Abizaid visited Congressman John Murtha on Capitol Hill," Wallace says.

...

[John Murth said] 'We need to get out,'" Woodward continues. "And John Abizaid went to see him privately. This is Bush’s and Rumsfeld’s commander in Iraq," Woodward says.

"And John Abizaid held up his fingers, according to Murtha, and said, 'We’re about a quarter of an inch apart, said, 'We’re that far apart,'" Woodward says

Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq, Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial' - CBS News

I think this, along with the lack of denials (or launched attacks) by the Pentagon about Murtha, shows how much Murtha speaks for the US Military

The current general in charge of Iraq is siding with Murtha...not President Bush

Wow, just fucking wow...this, and a lot of other information, is really going to knock the GOP over this week, and the Foley incident is just kicking them while they are on the ground.

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 03:14 AM

Historically, the 6 weeks before the election are the most important, the American voter takes 3 weeks to formulate his basic opinions, and by mid-October is fairly stuck to them and needs a minor miracle to change his or her mind, even the undecideds are stuck in their "tilt"

Last week was overall good for Democrats, this week is looking much better, and I am sure this will resonate for another week...maybe longer...I don't see how the GOP can recover, which is why the betting sites for GOP house control went from in the 60s to the 40s (now more likely Dems take control) which is pretty incredible considering the Bush/GOP "bounce" the Republicans got in early September

IminWonderland · 10-02-2006, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

"General John Abizaid, commander of all U.S. forces in the Middle East, you quote him as saying privately a year ago that the U.S. should start cutting its troops in Iraq. You report that he told some close Army friends, quote, 'We’ve gotta get the fuck out.' And then this past March, General Abizaid visited Congressman John Murtha on Capitol Hill," Wallace says.

...

[John Murth said] 'We need to get out,'" Woodward continues. "And John Abizaid went to see him privately. This is Bush’s and Rumsfeld’s commander in Iraq," Woodward says.

"And John Abizaid held up his fingers, according to Murtha, and said, 'We’re about a quarter of an inch apart, said, 'We’re that far apart,'" Woodward says

Bob Woodward: Bush Misleads On Iraq, Tells 60 Minutes About His Book 'State Of Denial' - CBS News

I think this, along with the lack of denials (or launched attacks) by the Pentagon about Murtha, shows how much Murtha speaks for the US Military

The current general in charge of Iraq is siding with Murtha...not President Bush

Wow, just fucking wow...this, and a lot of other information, is really going to knock the GOP over this week, and the Foley incident is just kicking them while they are on the ground.

I think the scary thing is, that this stuff is not even made up. This isn't like, the first time we hear this stuff. And 6 years ago when a few people saw this coming, they were considered crazy that any of the stuff happening to today would actually happen.

sj23 · 10-02-2006, 04:57 AM

If you saw the Woodward 60 minutes interview he said that Bush & Cheney are riding Kissengers nuts on this whole "Stay the course" thing, just like it worked in Vietnam.

kinggovernor · 10-02-2006, 08:18 AM

that is pretty low to quote a private conversation and that is assuming that it is true

ballz2wallz · 10-02-2006, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by sj23

If you saw the Woodward 60 minutes interview he said that Bush & Cheney are riding Kissengers nuts on this whole "Stay the course" thing, just like it worked in Vietnam.

We didn't stay the course, and we see the result of Vietnam. Perhaps we should do things differently this time?

avsp · 10-02-2006, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

We didn't stay the course, and we see the result of Vietnam. Perhaps we should do things differently this time?

What do you think the consequence were of 'not staying the course', (outside of Vietnam), for the conduct of the Cold War?

Is it appropriate to draw any such similarities for the WoT?

In trhe specific case of Vietnam, what would it mean if the history of Iraq was to follow the history of Vietnam? How likely is that to happen? What are the similarities/differences?

The fact that the region was destabilised after the north's victory is likely, IMO, to be repeated even if the specifics are, obviously, completely different

ballz2wallz · 10-02-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by avsp

What do you think the consequence were of 'not staying the course', (outside of Vietnam), for the conduct of the Cold War?

I don't think you can compare the Cold War to either Vietnam or Iraq considering the Cold War was mainly an intelligence war and not comprised of actual fighting.

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

that is pretty low to quote a private conversation and that is assuming that it is true

This isn't some low-key publication outfit he went with...they checked and double checked all his facts, he has tape recordings, notes, etc to back up all his claims. Even the WH which is being directly attacked refused to attack his credibility.

Are you calling Woodward a liar who makes up facts or an incompetent reporter who doesn't verify his sources and information?

kinggovernor · 10-02-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

This isn't some low-key publication outfit he went with...they checked and double checked all his facts, he has tape recordings, notes, etc to back up all his claims. Even the WH which is being directly attacked refused to attack his credibility.

Are you calling Woodward a liar who makes up facts or an incompetent reporter who doesn't verify his sources and information?

private conversations should not be quoted for news stories

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

private conversations should not be quoted for news stories

its his book

and nice dodge

It's nice to see the Commander of our forces in Iraq is a real Patriot that agrees with other patriots like Murtha

avsp · 10-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think you can compare the Cold War to either Vietnam or Iraq considering the Cold War was mainly an intelligence war and not comprised of actual fighting.

Fair enough, that why it was called 'cold' etc, ... but were Korea & Vietnam not part of the longer running ~~US v USSR~~ west v communist conflict/rivalry?

After Vietnam were US troops on a large scale used to directly counter communist backed rebels with revolution in mind?

If not, why not?

kinggovernor · 10-02-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

its his book

then it shouldn't be in his book

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

then it shouldn't be in his book

Why, because it makes you sad?

Freedom of Speech

KatKanPlay · 10-02-2006, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

then it shouldn't be in his book

We shouldnt know these things?

kinggovernor · 10-02-2006, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Why, because it makes you sad?

Freedom of Speech

it is journalistically irresponsible to publish quotes of off the record comments

Thorgrim · 10-02-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

it is journalistically irresponsible to publish quotes of off the record comments

Only if the person requests that its off the record, and its a private conversation, and the reporter agrees

kinggovernor · 10-02-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Only if the person requests that its off the record, and its a private conversation, and the reporter agrees

A general would not want this quote in a book, critizing the president is a big no no

SoFlaJDM · 10-02-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

A general would not want this quote in a book, critizing the president is a big no no

that would make him... unamerican, right?

6SpeedTA95 · 10-02-2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

that would make him... unamerican, right?

Dont know much about the military do you?