I hate Walmart and all, but this is screwed up...

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Publius

Why? Because they're successful? Why hate a company that is "winning" the market fair and square?

Yep same argument they used against woolsworth, toys r us, big book stores, starbucks etc....

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Proof? "The federal poverty level for a family of four is $17,650/yr. The average Wal-Mart hourly sales employee makes $13,861/yr."

So either the average business pays more than Wal-Mart, or the federal government has determined that the average American is poor.

Or the average Wal-Mart worker doesnt rely on that job for living. Retired people subsizing SSA/bored out of their mind at home doing nothing. People working 2 jobs

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Yep same argument they used against woolsworth, toys r us, big book stores, starbucks etc....

I hope you're not accusing me of presenting equivalent argument to those made against the aforementioned companies. I doubt I am. Don't insult me; I haven't done it to you.

Or the average Wal-Mart worker doesnt rely on that job for living. Retired people subsizing SSA/bored out of their mind at home doing nothing. People working 2 jobs

Is it a fact that the average Wal-Mart employee works two jobs or doesn't rely on that job for a living? Or is that just a hunch?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

No, that's not what I said and you know that. Don't be so infantile; you're better than that.


Again, that's not what I said.


Obviously I couldn't lay it out before you and explain it efficiently using quotes from executives and notarized documents saying "Let's shit on America." However, I can present the implications to you. Actually, I already did ... but I guess that was overlooked. So here you go again (I'll add emphasis):
They paid a $50,000,000 settlement in Colorado for an off the clock class action suit. In Texas, it was $150,000,00. They faced lawsuits in 31 different states for wage and hour abuses.


One or two stores? I must have missed the news about these newfangled transcontinental establishments that span across 31 states.


What more do you want?

Wage abuses are rampant in retail. I was forced to work off the clock many times at best buy, they got sued, I got money, the law/system worked.

Because their business model is good that doesn't mean they need to be punished. They definately aren't perfect, and managers do some unethical shit, but i find it hard to believe, almost impossible to believe that a regional manager/executive or that a corporate exec knew about what was happening. You'd be surprised at just how tight districts can be run with no word getting up the chain. There was so much shit that happened at best buy that corporate would have fired managers over, but because they never found out due to corrupt management at store/district levels things didn't change.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Wage abuses are rampant in retail. I was forced to work off the clock many times at best buy, they got sued, I got money, the law/system worked.

I worked at Best Buy too. They did the same thing at mine. I once worked 18hrs in a 24hr day (closed at midnight and came in the next morning at 6am ... in case you were wondering how that worked), and those fuckers fudged my hours to avoid paying me OT. BBY 125 FOR LYPHE!!11

Because their business model is good that doesn't mean they need to be punished.

That's not why I'm saying they need to be punished. I'm saying they should be punished for unethical behavior.

They definately aren't perfect, and managers do some unethical shit, but i find it hard to believe, almost impossible to believe that a regional manager/executive or that a corporate exec knew about what was happening.

There's statements from DMs and GMs talking about various unethical things they were instructed to do. Like I said in the other thread, I don't want to spend the time looking for it all again unless it will be considered sufficient evidence by those that don't believe Wal-Mart is unethical.

You'd be surprised at just how tight districts can be run with no word getting up the chain. There was so much shit that happened at best buy that corporate would have fired managers over, but because they never found out due to corrupt management at store/district levels things didn't change.

I know it all too well. But that stuff (presumably) wasn't harmful. Even some of the thievery at Best Buy was acceptable, because a lot of it was just going to get junked out or DEVO'd anyway. I know behind the tech bench, we (edit: actually, I never did it ... it was the other techs) would take movies out of the DEVO bin and copy them to our computer before sending them out to get DEVO'd (edit: but I would gladly make a copy of the copy that was on the computer).

Oh this brings back memories!

[thomez]

In what ways is Walmart unethical that cannot be handled in the court system with current law?

Do not include what they do overseas unless it breaks the law in that country.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I hope you're not accusing me of presenting equivalent argument to those made against the aforementioned companies. I doubt I am. Don't insult me; I haven't done it to you.

lets see driving out competition check. paying slave wages check

Is it a fact that the average Wal-Mart employee works two jobs or doesn't rely on that job for a living? Or is that just a hunch?

Look who works at wal-mart. Retired people, kids and idiots.

It must be a good job to have for that group because when they opened up our supercenter there were a thousand people looking for the 200 jobs.
My mom went to the job fair and laugher her ass off when they said starting pay was like $9 but hey it looks like that is a great income for that type of people in this area.


Wow, our store is in the top 5 of sales No wonder they want to open one in the next city over.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by thomez

In what ways is Walmart unethical that cannot be handled in the court system with current law?

Threatening employees with termination if they qualify for overtime pay. Claiming $240,000,000,000 in sales and still not being competitive, in terms of seeking employment; this actually epitomizes the reason why Reagan's "trickle down" effect didn't work.

Do not include what they do overseas unless it breaks the law in that country.

Did I not say that I am against them because of their business ethics? Yeah, that doesn't preclude what they do overseas.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

lets see driving out competition check. paying slave wages check

You obviously didn't read what I had to say. I respected you a lot back on OT, but one more of these and you'll be the first person on my ignore list.

The crux of my argument is not that they drive out competition. It's the means that they go about doing it.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

I worked at Best Buy too. They did the same thing at mine. I once worked 18hrs in a 24hr day (closed at midnight and came in the next morning at 6am ... in case you were wondering how that worked), and those fuckers fudged my hours to avoid paying me OT. BBY 125 FOR LYPHE!!11


That's not why I'm saying they need to be punished. I'm saying they should be punished for unethical behavior.


There's statements from DMs and GMs talking about various unethical things they were instructed to do. Like I said in the other thread, I don't want to spend the time looking for it all again unless it will be considered sufficient evidence by those that don't believe Wal-Mart is unethical.


I know it all too well. But that stuff (presumably) wasn't harmful. Even some of the thievery at Best Buy was acceptable, because a lot of it was just going to get junked out or DEVO'd anyway. I know behind the tech bench, we (edit: actually, I never did it ... it was the other techs) would take movies out of the DEVO bin and copy them to our computer before sending them out to get DEVO'd (edit: but I would gladly make a copy of the copy that was on the computer).

Oh this brings back memories!

BBY was a good company and I loved the execs but store level corruption was rampant
I agree they shhould be punished for unethical behavior and the lawsuit accomplished that.
Sometimes I wonder if GM's and DM's are just covering their ass due to the pressure of retail.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

You obviously didn't read what I had to say. I respected you a lot back on OT, but one more of these and you'll be the first person on my ignore list.

The crux of my argument is not that they drive out competition. It's the means that they go about doing it.

ok then.

Certainly, Wal-Mart wasn't doing anything illegal, but that's not the point. They were driving away competition and oligopolizing, or in that case monopolizing, an area. It's astonishing that people would actually praise their behavior. So what if they are within the law? That doesn't matter.

Oh noes the community went to another store, damn you walmart.


No company can underpay their employees. If you want more money, get another job.



That is the crux of your arguments. Walmart is bad because they are a succesful business and people go to their stores.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Oh noes the community went to another store, damn you walmart.

When there's no more competition, then there's no more capitalism.

No company can underpay their employees. If you want more money, get another job.

Right
Which is why Wal-Mart has been losing numerous lawsuits for wage and hour abuses?

That is the crux of your arguments. Walmart is bad because they are a succesful business and people go to their stores.

No, Wal-Mart is bad because of their business ethics.