Ok, well i guess they sell things cheap - Page 9

lew · 10-05-2006, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

It seems we have a fundamental disagreement as to our roles in a civilized society. You are operating under a sort of preconventional morality whereas you judge what actions to take based on the consequences of punishment or no punishment. You look and see whatever course of action will benefit you personally the most. Then you say " will I be punished for this action". if the answer is no, you procede with that course of action.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

IminWonderland · 10-05-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Of course I do. I have moral obligations to things. But that has nothing to do with government or forcing anyone to do anything. We all have convictions on various things of what we feel is right and wrong. I have an obligation to raise my children in a good home because I have made that obligation over myself and them to raise them in such a way - NOT because society or government or you demand that I do.

Well, just because we or the government expects something of the individual in society, does not mean that it should be law, or is a law. But, we are all under a social contract to live here, and there are expectations from society for us. Some believe a part of that social contract is for businesses to contribute to society outside of their profits. Which is why they donate money to charity, sponsor charity Events, and giving their employees benefits is also a recognizable contribution to the society. For a company to purposely undermine their employees worth, says alot about that company. It reminds me of the corporate greed that was so apparent in the 80s (if I remember right.) but, there is no doubt, that a company who gives back to their employees, is also giving back to society. It's a relationship, and Walmart is taking advantage of their relationship with the consumer.

No one here has really said "Oh, this should be the LAW." Because no one here wants that either. What I want is Walmart to WANT to give their employees benefits, because their employees are generally the working poor, and it's all a part of the charity that major corporations like to show off.

lew · 10-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Well, just because we or the government expects something of the individual in society, does not mean that it should be law, or is a law. But, we are all under a social contract to live here, and there are expectations from society for us. Some believe a part of that social contract is for businesses to contribute to society outside of their profits. Which is why they donate money to charity, sponsor charity Events, and giving their employees benefits is also a recognizable contribution to the society. For a company to purposely undermine their employees worth, says alot about that company. It reminds me of the corporate greed that was so apparent in the 80s (if I remember right.) but, there is no doubt, that a company who gives back to their employees, is also giving back to society. It's a relationship, and Walmart is taking advantage of their relationship with the consumer.

No one here has really said "Oh, this should be the LAW." Because no one here wants that either. What I want is Walmart to WANT to give their employees benefits, because their employees are generally the working poor, and it's all a part of the charity that major corporations like to show off.

But that doesn't matter. No one is forcing those workers to go there. If they quit, Walmart is forced to give better benefits or go out of business.

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by lew

But that doesn't matter. No one is forcing those workers to go there. If they quit, Walmart is forced to give better benefits or go out of business.

In a perfect world. But there are not an infinite number of jobs to be had. Some people will be forced to take jobs at walmart or not work at all.

lew · 10-05-2006, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

In a perfect world. But there are not an infinite number of jobs to be had. Some people will be forced to take jobs at walmart or not work at all.

No, not in a perfect world. This is how the free market works. It doesn't have to be in a perfect world.

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by lew

No, not in a perfect world. This is how the free market works. It doesn't have to be in a perfect world.

But what you are saying won't actually happen, because the situation that would need to exist.. does not exist

They simply can't go en masse to the super store down the street that offers medical benefits. Such a place doesn't exist. You are like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake!"

hsmith · 10-05-2006, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

In a perfect world. But there are not an infinite number of jobs to be had. Some people will be forced to take jobs at walmart or not work at all.

If no one works at walmart, how will they sell their products and stay in business

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

If no one works at walmart, how will they sell their products and stay in business

They won't.. but that will never happen. When someone if faced with a choice of working at Walmart or not at all... they will work at Walmart. health benefits or no. Feeding your family is sort of important.

lew · 10-05-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

They won't.. but that will never happen. When someone if faced with a choice of working at Walmart or not at all... they will work at Walmart. health benefits or no. Feeding your family is sort of important.

I'm not aware of any location that only has a Walmart and no other businesses. Can you please provide a link of this magical land?

KatKanPlay · 10-05-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Since when are corporations required to buy healthcare for their employees ? Should walmart buy them a car ? Pay their rent ? Clothing ?

That is not at all what I am saying, Read my other posts, my position is very clear.

KatKanPlay · 10-05-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Businesses don't have any obligation to society.

In a society that allows a business to prosper, it sure does.

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by lew

I'm not aware of any location that only has a Walmart and no other businesses. Can you please provide a link of this magical land?

Can you please provide a link to the land of infinite jobs where any job you want is instantly created for you?

lew · 10-05-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Can you please provide a link to the land of infinite jobs where any job you want is instantly created for you?

K, thanks for the link.

So, since every city has more than one job, it is very likely that people can seek other employment if they are unhappy at Walmart.

thomez · 10-05-2006, 07:43 PM

do people really believe Walmart just pays minimum wage because they are greedy and want to make extra % profits and just completely ignore that they have to compete in a very competitive retail market? they are no monopoly, Kmart, Target, Sears, Lowe's, Home Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy etc etc all sell many of the same things as Walmart and there is a ton of competition for consumers there

Walmart, much like oil companies, makes profits via VOLUME, not because they make 10 or 20% profit margins on their products, because they simply do not

lew · 10-05-2006, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

do people really believe Walmart just pays minimum wage because they are greedy and want to make extra % profits and just completely ignore that they have to compete in a very competitive retail market? they are no monopoly, Kmart, Target, Sears, Lowe's, Home Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy etc etc all sell many of the same things as Walmart and there is a ton of competition for consumers there

Walmart, much like oil companies, makes profits via VOLUME, not because they make 10 or 20% profit margins on their products, because they simply do not

Please don't bring logic to this thread.

FUCK WAL MART IT IS AN EVIL ENTITY!!!

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by lew

K, thanks for the link.

So, since every city has more than one job, it is very likely that people can seek other employment if they are unhappy at Walmart.

what you are saying is just not reality. You are thinking on too much of a micro level.

WickedLou9 · 10-05-2006, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

do people really believe Walmart just pays minimum wage because they are greedy and want to make extra % profits and just completely ignore that they have to compete in a very competitive retail market? they are no monopoly, Kmart, Target, Sears, Lowe's, Home Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy etc etc all sell many of the same things as Walmart and there is a ton of competition for consumers there

Walmart, much like oil companies, makes profits via VOLUME, not because they make 10 or 20% profit margins on their products, because they simply do not

then they could afford to treat thier employees better if they were inclined.

lew · 10-05-2006, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

what you are saying is just not reality. You are thinking on too much of a micro level.

kinggovernor · 10-05-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

then they could afford to treat thier employees better if they were inclined.

if they were inclined to go out of business

Kytro · 10-05-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

See this is the sort of mentality that creates these problems to begin with. Of course walmart has an obligation to it's shareholders and to produce a profit.. but thier obligation does not end there. They have an obligation to the society of which they are a member.
People seem to think that socially responsible companies are not profitable... that is a false perception.

I didn't say they have no other responsibilities, just that the primary responsibility is to thier shareholders, and this will take precedence.

Socially responsible companies may or may not be profitable, but it is a choice the companies make. Wallmart is not obliged to be socially responsible beyond it's legal requirements. If it chooses to do so, that is a bonus.

The same thing applies to people. As long as you don't break the law, you can step on people all you like. It may not be nice, but companies don't have the same sense of morailty as people.

Things like groupthink interfere. Companies have thier own culture.