Sen. John Warner said the military had done what it could , and if after three months the Iraqis have made no progress to calm ethnic violence and hasten reconstruction, then Congress will have to make some "bold decisions." Warner did not say what he thinks Congress should do but ...
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10-05-2006, 08:33 PM
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 #1 | ||||
| Unite for Dems or Liberty Dies  Progressive Philadelphia, PA 
| Lead GOP Sen: If no progress in Iraq in 90 days, all options open (includ.withdrawal) Sen. John Warner said the military had done what it could, and if after three months the Iraqis have made no progress to calm ethnic violence and hasten reconstruction, then Congress will have to make some "bold decisions." Warner did not say what he thinks Congress should do but said all options will be considered. Leading Republican gives dismal view of Iraq, says 'bold decisions' may be needed - iht,america,US Congress Iraq - Americas - International Herald Tribune I think this will take over as Story A when the Mark Foley thing gets a little played out in a week or two, not good for the GOP. If you have John Warner saying this stuff...I mean talk about a conservative Republican who has been in the Senate forever, it talks to a lot of Republicans who are beginning to think what Woodward reported our Top General in Iraq said "We need to get the fuck out of there" Remember Senate Leader Frist just talked about making peace with the Taliban...the guys who helped the plotters attack us on 9/11! At this pace, I think this will be off the political table by 2008, by the summer of 2008 I bet you'll have a plan for getting out Iraq, making peace with the Taliban, and Republicans will look utterly defeated on security, add in a Democratic House or Senate that hasn't "taken away" any of the executive tools, and a Democratic Candidate that wants to be strong on national security, I think it looks like even McCain or Rudy would be defeated | ||||
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10-05-2006, 09:42 PM
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| Here's to you...  Liberal
| This is a big story. It's surprising. Things are so out of control in Iraq it can't be ignored. The news is saying 21 Americans have died in the past 5 days, and death squads are basing themselves in the hospitals. I hate this war. I hate the forces in human nature that made it so. I hate war. It makes rich people rich and poor people dead. People need to be as repulsed and horrified by the very concept of war half as much as they recoil from Janet Jackson's saggy old tit. | ||||
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10-05-2006, 09:49 PM
| #3 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red  Democrat "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”
| looks like he's joining the cut and runners | ||||
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10-05-2006, 10:10 PM
| #4 | ||||
| Here's to you... Liberal
| Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM What I want to know is: Why does John Warner hate America?
Doesn't he know that if you give them a deadline or a timetable, the terrorists will just wait it out? He probably doesn't want America to take the offense on the war on terror. Heck, obviously he doesn't. | ||||
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10-05-2006, 10:15 PM
| #5 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red Democrat "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”
| he's obviously a liberal... only a dumb liberal hates america that much | ||||
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10-05-2006, 10:57 PM
| #6 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up  Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Great. Let the bad guys know that if they keep killing a lot of people for just 3 more months we will go on our merry way. What a way to fight a war.... | ||||
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10-05-2006, 11:00 PM
| #7 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by Stylerod conversely, what encouragement is there for the iraqis to stand up and take control, since we would just stay there forever and do it for them?
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10-05-2006, 11:05 PM
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| Unite for Dems or Liberty Dies Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by Stylerod Vote Conservative Republican John Warner out in 2008! You start the campaign Style, I'm right behind you!
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10-05-2006, 11:09 PM
| #9 | ||||
| Political Genius  Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM
I would never take withdrawl off the table. But I don't like the timetable idea. You just tell the isurgents to make as much trouble for only 90 days and they win!  I doubt they will pay attention to a Senator though? If Bush said this!  | ||||
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10-07-2006, 09:01 PM
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| I DIDNT KNOW THAT  Corpus Christi, Texas
| If I were an Iraqian (?), then I would be a part of the insurgency. I would fight with all my power against the occupier. Why do we feel that by giving a timetable for withdrawal it would "embolden the insurgency" when the majority of the insurgency are Iraqi nationals that do not want their country occupied. Do we think if we withdraw then the Iraqi's are gonna man their naval fleet and come and get us? I dont get this argument. Give them a timetable so they then know that they either get together and build their own democracy or blow each others brains out. I really think we could put that money to much better use. | ||||
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10-08-2006, 12:33 PM
| #11 | ||||
| Member Green Party
| well are we comming to this point after 3 years of effort? RE withdrawl: If the US can not offer a credible intervention and security option in the most strategically important region on earth from a energy security POV what happens? do Jihadist figure heads claim victory over the great satan.. does Iran fill the power vacuum in the wake of US withdrawal? can the US go back? how do other powers review there security arrangements on the basis the US has just been defeated in Iraq? Boris London | ||||
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10-08-2006, 01:16 PM
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| I DIDNT KNOW THAT Corpus Christi, Texas
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10-08-2006, 01:55 PM
| #13 | ||||
| Member Green Party
| Originally Posted by KatKanPlay I suppose I am suggesting there are no easy solutions...running away has a host of problems... that is not to say you do not do it just that the "price" needs to be assessed
this is the real problem.... any questions about the ramifications of Iraq are usually simplified into a US centric view point and/or as proof of some red on blue argument. does it matter if the US population doesn't think the US was defeated as much as others outside the US do? there is a very very very very wide ramification of a US withdrawal I think it is helpful not to view the question of "what happens" as some sort of support for the war (which it isn't) but more helpfully as "what happens" its no good saying Iraq nation building SHOULD be a multilateral global effort if the conditions do not exist... I totally agree there SHOULD be a global effort in Iraq OR conversely some demonstration by unilateralists on how exactly the US can win.. neither of these two options appear credible or available presently what event could change the political landscape and create more room for geo-political maneuver? I would be more comfortable about running away if those advocating it would demonstrate some insight in what happens next in the way of mitigation. Boris London | ||||
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10-08-2006, 02:49 PM
| #14 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by Stylerod The bad guys....the bad guys are the insurgents right? The citizens of Iraq who do not want us there. So, they become good guys when they want us there? And we make them want us there, by being there?
Oh..wait, are you going to tell me now, that the terrorists are the bad guys? The one's that were not there 4 years ago, but now that we are there, they are there. And if we leave, what? What will happen? The terrorists want to fight us right? So, what, do you think they are going to follow us to America? Do you think that a terrorist cell is going to take over Iraq? Why would they want to take over Iraq? They aren't political groups, they are religious groups, and taking over countries isn't really what they are into, isn't that what WE do? Take over a country, topple the leader, and then replace with someone who we like?  It's time to realize this was a BAD BAD idea, POORLY Planned, and it's time to just GO> | ||||
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10-08-2006, 03:02 PM
| #15 | ||||
| Member Green Party
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland perhaps its time to realize it was a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD BAD BAD BAD idea, AWFULLY planned and doesn't have a easy option of just "going"
thats how appallingly reckless the whole endeavor is/was... once you invade other countries and lose on all levels including morally(perception) the rout that follows leads all the way to your front door... what advantage is there is basing your security on some arrangement with the US if it can not committ to the most vital region on earth where exactly do we retreat and go too? back to saudi arabia? kuwait? ... relie on NATO to somehow bolster everything up from a kurdish enclave, i think not?... what exactly happens after the US goes...? its not just what happens in Iraq.. perhaps a global perception of a US defeat would not be such a bad thing and going is the best option? Boris london | ||||
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10-08-2006, 04:49 PM
| #16 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland
Ask the American soldiers in Iraq who the bad guys are. After they tell you let's see if you laugh in their face. | ||||
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10-08-2006, 05:04 PM
| #17 | ||||
| Unite for Dems or Liberty Dies Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by Stylerod There is never an excuse to laugh in someones face over a tragic event unless they are asking for it, I don't see such a situation and why you would bring it up that he would laugh in a soldiers face
Lets look at our enemies list here: Shia forces we trained have become death squads some we fight, the others tip off the ones we are going to fight Sunni forces are in an insurgency against us Kurdish forces are aiding terrorist groups that attack Turkey and by definition should be our enemy Who does that leave, what friends do we have? The Iraqi government? The ones who implicitly support Hezbollah and Iran, and know and allow their forces to be used for genocide and ethnic cleansing? Basically, if we use a regular formula, everyone in Iraq is our enemy, and as foreign occupiers we don't have much of a route left except to start withdrawing and playing it by ear If we withdraw, i suspect the terrorists will go into a lull and wait until we are out...after then they will fight with nationalists, and the nationalists will win, if we're wrong, we go back in, establish one superbase in the middle of the Sunni Triangle and one at the Iraqi-Kuwait border, and use it to strike at any terrorist training camp, etc But otherwise, watch from the sidelines, and keep the terrorists in check | ||||
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10-08-2006, 05:15 PM
| #18 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim
The bad guys are the people that are trying to kill our soldiers while we try to make Iraq a better place. I guess it can be as simple as that. | ||||
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10-08-2006, 05:19 PM
| #19 | ||||
| Unite for Dems or Liberty Dies Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by Stylerod The Kurds have no reason to kill us because we leave them alone, neither do the Turks...
The Shia and Sunni both try to kill our soldiers or aid those who do so...thats the vast majority of Iraq... | ||||
