Navyman reaches plea to testify on Marines murder of innocent Iraqi citizen

Thorgrim · 10-06-2006, 10:47 AM

Petty Officer 3rd Class Melson J. Bacos was set to take the stand at his court-martial Friday and give his account of the alleged kidnapping and murder of 52-year-old Hasham Ibrahim Awad.

His testimony would mark a sudden change in the case, but not necessarily a surprise -- observers expected prosecutors to solidify their case through plea bargaining. Bacos' plea deal could compel the others to negotiate their way out of the case, experts in military law said.

CNN.com - Navy corpsman plans to testify against Marines - Oct 6, 2006

if they're found guilty, which is looking more and more likely

when is the last time we've had a Marine shot to death by a firing squad for war crimes?

Thorgrim · 10-06-2006, 03:19 PM

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - A Navy corpsman testified at his court-martial Friday that he watched as Marines shot an Iraqi civilian in the head after taking him from his home in the town of Hamdania.

Petty Officer 3rd Class Melson J. Bacos, 21, said he saw two Marines fire at least 10 rounds into 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad.

Bacos and the seven Marines he accompanied on an April patrol were charged with seizing Awad from his home, killing him and placing an AK-47 assault rifle and shovel next to his body to suggest he wanted to plant a roadside bomb.
Medic: Marines shot Iraqi civilian - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

So you guys thinking the Marines didn't do anything?

motivez · 10-06-2006, 03:47 PM

Well, if they're guilty they deserve what's coming to them. Killing innocent civilians is never acceptable when done purposely. It's still unacceptable when done on accident, but unfortunately somewhat expected in war.

I really don't like the idea of plea bargains in this case though. What prevents someone from copping a plea in order to save his skin if it looks like the shit is going to hit the fan for everyone?

From the information I've read it seemed like there was enough information without a plea deal, but it does 'strengthen' the case.

kinggovernor · 10-07-2006, 12:53 AM

semper fi!

Donkey® · 10-07-2006, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

semper fi!

This means what? You condone what they did or just want to make a joke?

kinggovernor · 10-07-2006, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This means what? You condone what they did or just want to make a joke?

honestly I have been drinking

Donkey® · 10-07-2006, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

honestly I have been drinking

Carry on soldier.

KatKanPlay · 10-07-2006, 09:41 PM

Another casualty of a senseless war.

ethyl · 10-07-2006, 10:10 PM

Sounds like he helped with the conspiracy but he didn't do any of the killing. I think the plea deal is acceptable. If found guilty by the military, should the rest of the soldiers be turned over to Iraqi courts?

KatKanPlay · 10-07-2006, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by ethyl

Sounds like he helped with the conspiracy but he didn't do any of the killing. I think the plea deal is acceptable. If found guilty by the military, should the rest of the soldiers be turned over to Iraqi courts?

Oh Hell No!

Thorgrim · 10-07-2006, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by ethyl

Sounds like he helped with the conspiracy but he didn't do any of the killing. I think the plea deal is acceptable. If found guilty by the military, should the rest of the soldiers be turned over to Iraqi courts?

If they are found guilty of murder, and are not executed, I will be sorely disappointed in the USM Justice System

Diesel66 · 10-08-2006, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

If they are found guilty of murder, and are not executed, I will be sorely disappointed in the USM Justice System

thought the dems were against the death penalty ?

btw it hasnt been used in military courts in 45 years. though there are 9men on deathrow today.

Thorgrim · 10-08-2006, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

thought the dems were against the death penalty ?

btw it hasnt been used in military courts in 45 years. though there are 9men on deathrow today.

Death penalty against civilians is a completely different from the military

death row is full of poor, sometimes innocent, people who are charged with killing white people, also it shows that murder isn't wrong its just who you do it to (its ok to murder a criminal), and its doesn't deter crime

in the army, you are taught to kill constantly, charges of murder are extremely rare and there has to be so much evidence its ridiculous, and in this case as others its for killing a non-white usually by a white, and finally, it DOES deter war crimes, knowing that someone could rat you out and you'll face the firing squad

ethyl · 10-08-2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Oh Hell No!

Doesn't the US have agreements with most countries where if soldiers commit certain severe crimes, they're transferred to the country's court system? If this happened in Italy, they would have been transferred to the Italian court system... right?

6SpeedTA95 · 10-08-2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Death penalty against civilians is a completely different from the military

death row is full of poor, sometimes innocent, people who are charged with killing white people, also it shows that murder isn't wrong its just who you do it to (its ok to murder a criminal), and its doesn't deter crime

in the army, you are taught to kill constantly, charges of murder are extremely rare and there has to be so much evidence its ridiculous, and in this case as others its for killing a non-white usually by a white, and finally, it DOES deter war crimes, knowing that someone could rat you out and you'll face the firing squad

who cares if someone is rich or poor, white or black, if you kill someone you pay the consequences. No you can't murder a criminal but if you kill a criminal in self defense then its justifiable. BTW the % of people on death row now that are innocent is estimated to be pretty small. With DNA evidence almost a sure pre req for the death penalty htat number continues to drop.

In the arm you are taught to kill which is exactly the reason why you have to treat it different. All barriers to taking human life have to be severely weakened or broken down to perform your job as a soldier well. Because of that everyonce in a while you will have someone that flips out and kill someone. Does that mean they shouldn't get the death penalty...I'd say its 100% situational. Should we give them a free pass? Hell no! But thats why we have courts.

Thorgrim · 10-08-2006, 10:46 AM

DNA labs are not squeky clean, innocent people are still found today, and many MANY cases DO NOT INVOLVE DNA EVIDENCE

It matters because the poor get a PD who has a ton of other cases and can barely remember his clients name in some cases

KatKanPlay · 10-08-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by ethyl

Doesn't the US have agreements with most countries where if soldiers commit certain severe crimes, they're transferred to the country's court system? If this happened in Italy, they would have been transferred to the Italian court system... right?

Civilians maybe, soldiers No. THey are accountable to military jurisdiction.

6SpeedTA95 · 10-08-2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

DNA labs are not squeky clean, innocent people are still found today, and many MANY cases DO NOT INVOLVE DNA EVIDENCE

It matters because the poor get a PD who has a ton of other cases and can barely remember his clients name in some cases

You can't take a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 case and treat it like the norm it distorts reality. Some cases dont involve DNA, sometimes innocent people are found guilty but the huge majority of the time the system works. Furthermore many of those that are found guilty are later found NOT guilty due to new evidence which is part of the reason some people sit on death row for 8, 10, 12 or 15 years.

Thorgrim · 10-08-2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

You can't take a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 case and treat it like the norm it distorts reality. Some cases dont involve DNA, sometimes innocent people are found guilty but the huge majority of the time the system works. Furthermore many of those that are found guilty are later found NOT guilty due to new evidence which is part of the reason some people sit on death row for 8, 10, 12 or 15 years.

link?

6SpeedTA95 · 10-08-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

link?

I dont have a link its from my crim justice classes.