ACORN to play a role in the census

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

He was 100% right. Show me exactly where the actions of a handful of individuals led to the rampant voter fraud the Republicans claim? I'd also like to know when we started blaming organizations for the actions of people that just so happen to work for them? If that were the case, the Bush administration are a bunch of felons because of Scooter.

Their people have been convicted of fraud. They worked in a way that forced their employees to get false information. Bad leadership. Bad business and people were charged for it.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Their people have been convicted of fraud. They worked in a way that forced their employees to get false information. Bad leadership. Bad business and people were charged for it.

8 or 9 individuals in an organization of thousands? Right. Show me the voter fraud dictated by the top management in Acorn.

[motivez]

We went over this before.. it's amazing how people want to generate controversy when there isn't one..

First of all, voter registration fraud done by select employees is different than voter fraud.. if some of the employees paid people to register twice or whatever, that's different than showing up to vote as someone you're not.

Secondly, ACORN had no choice but to turn in voter registration cards they got, EVEN if they were blatantly fraudulent. They don't get to decide who's to turn in and who's to not, otherwise they could turn in ONLY Democrat registrations..

They did separate the ones they suspected of being fraudulent into a separate pile and notified the various officials of such.. but in some cases, officials failed to take proper note, and then complained.

I did voter registration during the campaign, and we were told the same thing.. Turn in ALL cards you get filled out regardless of the information on them. If there's information missing, or filled out improperly, you can do your best to educate the person there.. but ultimately that's a decision the Board of Election makes, not the campaign worker.

I know we have several Republicans on here who have wanted to make this into a big deal in an effort to make Obama look bad, but really.. ignoring the facts time and time again to make that point gets old..

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

We went over this before.. it's amazing how people want to generate controversy when there isn't one..

First of all, voter registration fraud done by select employees is different than voter fraud.. if some of the employees paid people to register twice or whatever, that's different than showing up to vote as someone you're not.

lets stop you right there:

Falsified registrations become votes

voter registration fraud turned into voter fraud, that is a fact.

[motivez]

It's still the responsibility of the Board of Elections or equivalent local organization to catch and reject fraudulent voter registrations.. Legally, ACORN cannot discard fraudulent voter registration cards that are turned into it, even if they're blatant. Again, they make an effort to separate suspicious ballots and alert the local boards, but often times that went ignored, and then there's this false outrage that people want to hurl at ACORN about doing something it can't legally do..

The example you pointed to in Ohio was discussed, they were misinformed about the laws regarding being able to vote in that state as temporary residents who were there working.. and has nothing to do with any proven organizational effort to promote fraudulent voting.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

lets stop you right there:

Falsified registrations become votes

voter registration fraud turned into voter fraud, that is a fact.

You're AGAIN talking about a handful of individuals committing crimes that just so happen to be working for Acorn. Arod illegally purchase steroids...ALL baseball players are criminals.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You're AGAIN talking about a handful of individuals committing crimes that just so happen to be working for Acorn. Arod illegally purchase steroids...ALL baseball players are criminals.

that is a good analogy because there were hundreds of baseball players that tested positive. This is the "steriod" era, obviously managers and owners knew what was going on but looked the other way. Its the same thing here, they have similar problems all across the country, then it becomes an organizational problem

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

that is a good analogy because there were hundreds of baseball players that tested positive. This is the "steriod" era, obviously managers and owners knew what was going on but looked the other way. Its the same thing here, they have similar problems all across the country, then it becomes an organizational problem

3 soldiers indicted in journalist's death - The Boston Globe

Soldier indicted for rape, murder in Iraq | PerthNow

St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search

U.S. soldier indicted in homicide in Italy. (07-FEB-07) UPI NewsTrack


Former Ft. Campbell Soldier Indicted In Iraqi Civilian Deaths. (02-NOV-06) The America's Intelligence Wire




All soldiers are rapists, thieves and murderers. The US Army can not be trusted to do anything...ever. Must be an "organizational problem".


Have an issue with that statement?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

3 soldiers indicted in journalist's death - The Boston Globe

Soldier indicted for rape, murder in Iraq | PerthNow

St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search

U.S. soldier indicted in homicide in Italy. (07-FEB-07) UPI NewsTrack


Former Ft. Campbell Soldier Indicted In Iraqi Civilian Deaths. (02-NOV-06) The America's Intelligence Wire




All soldiers are rapists, thieves and murderers. The US Army can not be trusted to do anything...ever. Must be an "organizational problem".


Have an issue with that statement?

they police their own, ACORN and the MLB don't

[kinggovernor]

Conyers suggests probe of ACORN
S.A. Miller (Contact)
In an startling partisan shift, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers Jr. on Thursday proposed holding hearings on claims the liberal activist group ACORN engaged in a pattern of crimes ranging from voter fraud to a mob-style “protection” racket.

Mr. Conyers, Michigan Democrat and fierce partisan, suggested a congressional probe after scathing testimony about the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) during a hearing on various voting issues related to the 2008 presidential election.

Mr. Conyers called the accusations “a pretty serious matter.”

“I think that it would be something that would be worth our time,” he said during Thursday's hearing. “We've never had one person representing ACORN before the committee. ... I think in all fairness we ought to really examine it.”

The testimony by Pittsburgh lawyer Heather Heidelbaugh accused the nonprofit group of violating tax, campaign-finance and other laws by, among other things, sharing with the Barack Obama campaign a list of the Democrat's maxed-out campaign donors so ACORN could use it to solicit them for a get-out-the-vote drive.

She also testified that the Democrat-allied group provided liberal causes with protest-for-hire services and coerced donations from targets of demonstrations through a shakedown it called the “muscle for the money” program.

Ms. Heidelbaugh, a member of the executive committee of the Republican National Lawyers Association, spearheaded an unsuccessful lawsuit last year seeking a court injunction in Pennsylvania against ACORN's voter-registration drive for the 2008 presidential campaign. She appeared as a witness at the request of Republican committee members.

Mr. Conyers, who is known for his drive to continue investigating the Bush administration, previously defended ACORN. In October, he condemned an FBI voter fraud investigation targeting the group. He questioned whether it was politically motivated to hamper a voter-registration drive targeting groups likely to support Mr. Obama's candidacy.

But Mr. Conyers' shift was met by resistance from fellow Democrats on the committee, and it was unclear whether a hearing would be scheduled.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, New York Democrat and chairman of the Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution, civil rights and civil liberties that hosted Thursday's hearing, suggested there was not enough “credible evidence” to warrant a hearing focused exclusively on ACORN.

Rep. Melvin Watt said he would concede that ACORN and some of its members engaged in voter fraud. But he said voter fraud was already covered by existing law and Congress has not further role in the matter.

“I'm not coming to a hearing to have a trial on ACORN. That's not my job,” the North Carolina Democrat said.

Republican committee member Rep. Steve King of Iowa said getting the Democrat-led Congress to take action against ACORN “is going to be difficult but I am encouraged by John Conyers' request.”

The accusations against the group, which were based entirely on sworn court testimony late last year by ACORN whistleblower Anita MonCrief.

No ACORN officials testified at Thursday's hearing, but they have said none of the charges are true and dismiss Ms. MonCrief as a disgruntled, low-level employee who was fired for stealing money from the organization.

Kevin Whelan, ACORN deputy political director, did not return a call for comment Thursday.

Ms. MonCrief worked for years as a clerk at the D.C. office of ACORN-affiliated Project Vote before being fired for charging about $2,000 in personal expenses on an ACORN credit card.

She said the hearing Thursday - she attended but did not testify - was an extremely partisan exercise except for Mr. Conyers' support for further hearings.

“I thought that was really wonderful because he took a stand that I really didn't think was going to come from that side,” Ms. MonCrief, a registered Democrat, said after the hearing.
Washington Times - Conyers suggests probe of ACORN

I am looking for a better source but it appears that even liberal democrats have had enough of ACORN

[motivez]

Nothing wrong with an investigation to bring things into the open, but you're still wanting them to do something they're not legally allowed to do - discard ballots taken in.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

they police their own, ACORN and the MLB don't

So a bunch of rapists, murderers and thieves police themselves? Pardon me if I don't feel secure in that fact.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Legally, ACORN cannot discard fraudulent voter registration cards that are turned into it, even if they're blatant. Again, they make an effort to separate suspicious ballots and alert the local boards, but often times that went ignored, and then there's this false outrage that people want to hurl at ACORN about doing something it can't legally do..

The example you pointed to in Ohio was discussed, they were misinformed about the laws regarding being able to vote in that state as temporary residents who were there working.. and has nothing to do with any proven organizational effort to promote fraudulent voting.

Legally ACORN has managed to play their cards smart. Professionally they're a dirty organization. They believe that it is acceptable if an employee brings in only 40% valid registrations. They also tend to hire ex-cons and threaten to not pay them if they don't bring back X number of registrations. What that means is the organization is set up in such a way to flood urban areas with as many fraudulent registrations as they can. There is absolutely no purpose to run their organization this way if they wanted to be considered ethical. As long as they run their organization as unethically as they can legally get away with I don't think it's a good idea to give them even a small role in the census and other government programs.

[motivez]

I think you're repeating mostly conjecture.

[snjmom]

Geez, is it ACORN again? If you want the truth, look at the percentages of what ACORN thought was good registrations, vs the ones they flagged as suspicous, and the percentages of registrations turned in by the Pachyderm club, the Public Libraries, the DMV, etc.

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by snjmom

Geez, is it ACORN again? If you want the truth, look at the percentages of what ACORN thought was good registrations, vs the ones they flagged as suspicous, and the percentages of registrations turned in by the Pachyderm club, the Public Libraries, the DMV, etc.

I can't seem to find such numbers.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So a bunch of rapists, murderers and thieves police themselves? Pardon me if I don't feel secure in that fact.

your trolling is especially weak today

[motivez]

He's making the point that it's not fair to generalize and stereotype every member of an organization or the entire organization based on actions of very few members.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

He's making the point that it's not fair to generalize and stereotype every member of an organization or the entire organization based on actions of very few members.

its not a stereotype when it happens all over the country and is encouraged by the group, but you choose to ignore that. Just keep on repeating that voter registration fraud does not necessarily equal voter fraud is that makes you feel better, but it has been proven wrong.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

its not a stereotype when it happens all over the country and is encouraged by the group, but you choose to ignore that. Just keep on repeating that voter registration fraud does not necessarily equal voter fraud is that makes you feel better, but it has been proven wrong.

And you can keep ignoring the fact that ACORN is legally bound to turn over all voter registration cards, even ones that are blatantly fraudulent.

It's not their responsibility to reject the registrations, that's the Board of Elections.. yet you continually and pointlessly bash them for following the law, and going above and beyond by separating registration cards they suspect are fraudulent or incomplete.

There's also no evidence of some organization wide effort to assist in voter fraud efforts, or voter registration fraud efforts. The people within the organization who were found to be violating the organizations policies were dealt with last I read

So, again, I say base your outrage on facts instead of pre-election Rush Limbaugh talking points.. Direct your anger at the legislature if you think ACORN should be able to discard ballots it believes are fraudulent, direct it at the various Board of Elections if you feel they're doing a crappy job by letting fraudulent registrations through the process.