Why do you care if people don't speak English? - Page 2

SpicyMcVoodoo · 10-08-2006, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Imagine someone at work that you can't communicate with due to a language barrier. How much do they limit you, themselves, or the company from the inability to communicate?

The same applies to the well-being of America.

I think a more apt analogy would be a guy at work who doesn't speak English, but is a total work horse and gets along fine because he takes orders from a bilingual supervisor, and although he can't speak to everyone else, it doesn't really matter because he doesn't need to.

7th Ninjai · 10-08-2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

My beef with the Non-English, is that they have no desire to learn or assimilate into American culture, and English is a part of that. They don't raise their children to speak English, and then when they get to school, WE have to PAY for them to LEARN English, because their parents don't.

When you go to other countries, like MEXICO, or FRANCE, or OTHERS, to live, you have to learn their language. Because they don't accomidate.

We shouldn't either.

Children of immigrants are usually raised in their parents' native tongue prior to elementary school so they can communicate with their parents, grandparents, and other relatives. Everyone learns English in school. Just because most children in the US begin speaking English at home does not mean they get a free pass on English classes. Every child of an immigrant that I've met in my life was a master of both languages - their parents mother tongue and English. I fail to see how this is a problem. In my opinion, it is a benefit to anyone who happens to hire a bi-lingual individual when when he's all grown up.

Kytro · 10-08-2006, 09:56 PM

Do I care if people don't speak english?

Not until it causes me a problem.

Personally the idea of more than one language worldwide seems to only cause problems

7960 · 10-08-2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai

Children of immigrants are usually raised in their parents' native tongue prior to elementary school so they can communicate with their parents, grandparents, and other relatives. Everyone learns English in school. Just because most children in the US begin speaking English at home does not mean they get a free pass on English classes. Every child of an immigrant that I've met in my life was a master of both languages - their parents mother tongue and English. I fail to see how this is a problem.

up until recently in massachusetts kids could go YEARS in public school being taught in their native language. They were supposed to be learning english at the same time, but the brainiacs in mass education thought it was more important for them to be learning everything so they'd only get english in their "english class" but everything else was taught in spanish (that's the biggie).

so no, everyone doesn't necessarily learn english in school.

7th Ninjai · 10-08-2006, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

up until recently in massachusetts kids could go YEARS in public school being taught in their native language. They were supposed to be learning english at the same time, but the brainiacs in mass education thought it was more important for them to be learning everything so they'd only get english in their "english class" but everything else was taught in spanish (that's the biggie).

so no, everyone doesn't necessarily learn english in school.

That certainly sounds like the exception, rather than the norm in MA. In other words, I doubt many children in MA are being taught in languages other than English in public schools for every class except English itself.

I can see situations in which government funded schools in heavily Hispanic communities could focus on Spanish as the primary language. This would be especially true if the children had been raised for several years in Mexico and came to the US when they were in their teens. It will all wash out in the end.

My best friend is Korean. He came to the US when he was in 10th grade and didn't speak a word of English. He's 28 now and speaks English better (with zero accent) than most people in the US do. Language is a non issue to me.

7960 · 10-08-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai

That certainly sounds like the exception, rather than the norm in MA. In other words, I doubt many children in MA are being taught in languages other than English in public schools for every class except English itself.

I can see situations in which government funded schools in heavily Hispanic communities could focus on Spanish as the primary language. This would be especially true if the children had been raised for several years in Mexico and came to the US when they were in their teens. It will all wash out in the end.

My best friend is Korean. He came to the US when he was in 10th grade and didn't speak a word of English. He's 28 now and speaks English better (with zero accent) than most people in the US do. Language is a non issue to me.

My father-in-law works in the Holyoke public schools and is in the classrooms every day. Kids are taught in spanish...beginning of the school year to the end. Mass bilingual education is a joke. Kids who are not proficient in english are graduating because they did all the work in spanish.

JaJae · 10-08-2006, 11:12 PM

I think a lot of it has to do with regional reasons. Some of it might be racism, some might be annoyed by the lack of assimilation, yet in others it can be considered rude and the people who refuse to speak English in public often have wacky beliefs about it.

A local beauty store at the mall near me was all over the radio news not long ago. Basically the two girls would stand behind the counter and speak to each other in Spanish, sometimes joking and laughing. A lot of the customers got the impression through their eye contact and mannerisms that they were talking about them. One person was bilingual and said that they were commenting on her weight and items she was buying.

The manager told them that while they were in uniform getting paid in his store, they were to speak English from now on or they would be let go. They complained, but eventually agreed.

The manager got another complaint and he fired the two girls. They then sued his store and the company for discrimination... and WON!

This is the kind of stuff that sets people off. And when you hear about these kinds of stories and you constantly hear about the self righteous attitudes towards it, it can start to piss you off.

Personally I don't care if people don't speak English. If you don't want your kids to know the common language, then fine. Your loss. But don't send your kids to public schools to get educated in their native tongue on my dollar. When it starts costing us money I have a problem... especially if they are enrolled illegally.

IminWonderland · 10-08-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by R-Type

I'm hardly a culture warrior. If anything, I'm more of a globalist. I'm sure there are mexican nationalists as there are american nationalists as there are german nationalists, etc.. In the case of illegal immigrants from mexico, I am SURE that there are communities of them living in california, new mexico, and texas who have amassed enough members to sustain their own cultural inertia. In that sense, they are the culture warriors, not me. I didn't emigrate to mexico and expect everyone there to learn english.

No, there are communities here now, where it is just like living in Mexico. Because there has been no incentive for them to assimilate. They speak their own language, and have created their own little mexican communities.

Spicy, you keep saying "Doesn't affect me personally" and about direct affection to the other individuals life...
It does affect my life, because my quality of life sucks so bad, that I'm going to have to move somewhere else.

They don't split the English Speakers with the Non...because Seperate but Equal is inherently unequal. And I don't want those kids to have an unequal education, however, I don't believe my kids' education should suffer, and if you look at our test scores here, then you can see...

Houston hasn't lived this problem long enough like Southern California has...

IminWonderland · 10-08-2006, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by 7th Ninjai

Children of immigrants are usually raised in their parents' native tongue prior to elementary school so they can communicate with their parents, grandparents, and other relatives. Everyone learns English in school. Just because most children in the US begin speaking English at home does not mean they get a free pass on English classes. Every child of an immigrant that I've met in my life was a master of both languages - their parents mother tongue and English. I fail to see how this is a problem. In my opinion, it is a benefit to anyone who happens to hire a bi-lingual individual when when he's all grown up.

The problem is, is that kids in Elementary school on up through high SChool are expected to obtain a level of competency. And when 95% of the class doesn't speak English AT ALL, and 5% do...well, think about it. How can one meet those standards when the school is busy catching everyone up?

We aren't talking about learning "ENGLISH" structure or grammar, or anything like that, we are talking about "HELLO" "APPLE" "MY NAME IS...." My kid is 3 and he's already got this down.

The Language barrier is only the symptom of the real issue.

IminWonderland · 10-08-2006, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I think a lot of it has to do with regional reasons. Some of it might be racism, some might be annoyed by the lack of assimilation, yet in others it can be considered rude and the people who refuse to speak English in public often have wacky beliefs about it.

A local beauty store at the mall near me was all over the radio news not long ago. Basically the two girls would stand behind the counter and speak to each other in Spanish, sometimes joking and laughing. A lot of the customers got the impression through their eye contact and mannerisms that they were talking about them. One person was bilingual and said that they were commenting on her weight and items she was buying.

The manager told them that while they were in uniform getting paid in his store, they were to speak English from now on or they would be let go. They complained, but eventually agreed.

The manager got another complaint and he fired the two girls. They then sued his store and the company for discrimination... and WON!

This is the kind of stuff that sets people off. And when you hear about these kinds of stories and you constantly hear about the self righteous attitudes towards it, it can start to piss you off.

Personally I don't care if people don't speak English. If you don't want your kids to know the common language, then fine. Your loss. But don't send your kids to public schools to get educated in their native tongue on my dollar. When it starts costing us money I have a problem... especially if they are enrolled illegally.

A-FUCKING-MEN.

I 100% agree.

ballz2wallz · 10-09-2006, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

and although he can't speak to everyone else, it doesn't really matter because he doesn't need to.

That's no usually the case. I know of no company (or country) that can work at its optimum without cooperation among its people. Sure, he may not need to, but is it really best?

SpicyMcVoodoo · 10-09-2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That's no usually the case. I know of no company (or country) that can work at its optimum without cooperation among its people. Sure, he may not need to, but is it really best?

This happens all the fucking time. I'd say 90% of the time, the guy who refills my water at the restaurant barely speaks English. I don't think this is negatively affecting the restaurant, otherwise they would stop hiring these people. Same with manual laborers at plants and whatnot...the big companies subcontract out the labor, and the subcontractor takes care of the bilingual communication. There are shitloads of petro workers who don't speak English, and again, if this was a problem, they wouldn't be hiring these people.

I'm not saying this would work well at IBM corporate headquarters are something, but that doesn't matter, because these people don't work those kinds of jobs.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 10-09-2006, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Spicy, you keep saying "Doesn't affect me personally" and about direct affection to the other individuals life...
It does affect my life, because my quality of life sucks so bad, that I'm going to have to move somewhere else.

You haven't substantiated at all that your life sucks so bad that you'll need to move. All you've posted have been slight annoyances with people at the drive through not speaking English, women behind the counter talking to each other in Spanish, etc.

ballz2wallz · 10-09-2006, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I'm not saying this would work well at IBM corporate headquarters are something, but that doesn't matter, because these people don't work those kinds of jobs.

Perhaps they could if they spoke English. That's all I'm saying; in order to be able to integrate themselves into our country, to be able to really fit in, they could do a lot more by speaking English.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 10-09-2006, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Perhaps they could if they spoke English. That's all I'm saying; in order to be able to integrate themselves into our country, to be able to really fit in, they could do a lot more by speaking English.

That's true, but there will always be a huge chunk of jobs that don't need English, and if these people want to relegate themselves only to those jobs, then so be it. It doesn't affect me and they're fulfilling a need.

IminWonderland · 10-09-2006, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You haven't substantiated at all that your life sucks so bad that you'll need to move. All you've posted have been slight annoyances with people at the drive through not speaking English, women behind the counter talking to each other in Spanish, etc.

The illegal immigrants live 25 to a single family home. They take over neighborhoods and turn it into TJ. They are slowing down the progression of learning in schools. When they start taking over a neighborhood, the crime takes off. They don't assimilate into our American culture, because they are able to come over here illegally, get their lives paid for on my tax dollars.

Language is only a symptom of the real problem.

Scrum · 10-09-2006, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Perhaps they could if they spoke English. That's all I'm saying; in order to be able to integrate themselves into our country, to be able to really fit in, they could do a lot more by speaking English.

Isn't that the free market solution to all this?

This should work itself out. These people will not get good paying jobs if they don't speak English.

And on a side note about conforming to American culture: Has anyone turned on MTV recently? If that is any indication of American culture, call me Swiss.

IminWonderland · 10-09-2006, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Isn't that the free market solution to all this?

This should work itself out. These people will not get good paying jobs if they don't speak English.

And on a side note about conforming to American culture: Has anyone turned on MTV recently? If that is any indication of American culture, call me Swiss.

The problem with the free market solution, is that right now, they can hire illegals, and not get fined for it. Fix that, you fix the language issue. Our laws need to be enforced.

KatKanPlay · 10-09-2006, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Isn't that the free market solution to all this?

This should work itself out. These people will not get good paying jobs if they don't speak English.

And on a side note about conforming to American culture: Has anyone turned on MTV recently? If that is any indication of American culture, call me Swiss.