Boy, I hope Obama is really telling the truth on this one.

[Stylerod]

Obama, Lee warn North Korea; missile on the move

By Jack Kim
Reuters
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:21 AM

SEOUL (Reuters) - The leaders of South Korea and the United States told North Korea to drop its atomic ambitions and stop threatening the region while media reports on Wednesday said Pyongyang was moving ahead with plans to launch a long-range missile.

After a summit with South Korean President Lee Myung-bak in Washington on Tuesday, U.S. President Barack Obama said a nuclear-armed North Korea would pose a "grave threat" to the world. He vowed new U.N. sanctions imposed for North Korea's May 25 nuclear test would be strictly enforced.

Separately, the leaders of Russia and China called for speedy return to six-party talks on North Korea's nuclear program. Chinese President Hu Jintao and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev expressed serious concern over the situation on the Korean peninsula, according to a joint statement issued at the end of talks in Moscow.

"Given the belligerent manner in which they are constantly threatening their neighbors, I don't think there's any question that that would be a destabilizing situation that would be a profound threat to not only the United States' security, but to world security," Obama said at a news conference, referring to North Korea's recent moves.

Obama vowed to end a cycle of allowing North Korea to create a nuclear crisis, then get concessions in the form of food, fuel and other incentives in return for backing down, only to later see Pyongyang renege on its promises.

"This is a pattern they've come to expect," Obama said. "We are going to break that pattern."

Obama also reaffirmed Washington's commitment to the defense of South Korea, including keeping it under the U.S. "nuclear umbrella," a move likely to anger Pyongyang, which accuses Washington of scheming to mount a nuclear attack against it.

Analysts say the North's provocative moves are partly aimed at building internal support for leader Kim Jong-il, who appears to be laying the foundation for his youngest son to eventually take over the impoverished nation. The 67-year-old leader is believed to have suffered a stroke last year.

Obama, Lee warn North Korea; missile on the move

Because every leader before him just threw money at NK to shut them up. It would be great if Obama didn't.

[Dispatcher]

I agree. It's time to stop bribing both our allies and our enemies.

[Stylerod]

Now NK is saying they are going to shoot a missile toward Hawaii on or around July 4th. We are sending more anti missile ships to the area.

Sure am glad we got those things working. I know people here were pissed about having them, but this is exactly what they are great for.

[JDTC]

It's probably a diversion.

[Photon1001]

North Korea reportedly plans to fire long-range missile toward Hawaii in early July

HYUNG-JIN KIM
AP News

Jun 18, 2009 06:48 EST

North Korea may fire a long-range ballistic missile toward Hawaii in early July, a Japanese news report said Thursday, as Russia and China urged the regime to return to international disarmament talks on its rogue nuclear program.

The missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2 with a range of up to 4,000 miles (6,500 kilometers), would be launched from North Korea's Dongchang-ni site on the northwestern coast, said the Yomiuri daily, Japan's top-selling newspaper. It cited an analysis by the Japanese Defense Ministry and intelligence gathered by U.S. reconnaissance satellites.

The missile launch could come between July 4 and 8, the paper said.

While the newspaper speculated the Taepodong-2 could fly over Japan and toward Hawaii, it said the missile would not be able to hit Hawaii's main islands, which are about 4,500 miles (7,200 kilometers) from the Korean peninsula.

A spokesman for the Japanese Defense Ministry declined to comment on the report. South Korea's Defense Ministry and the National Intelligence Service — the country's main spy agency — said they could not confirm it.

Tension on the divided Korean peninsula has spiked since the North conducted its second nuclear test on May 25 in defiance of repeated international warnings. The regime declared Saturday it would bolster its nuclear programs and threatened war in protest of U.N. sanctions taken for the nuclear test.

U.S. officials have said the North has been preparing to fire a long-range missile capable of striking the western U.S. In Washington on Tuesday, Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said it would take at least three to five years for North Korea to pose a real threat to the U.S. west coast.

President Barack Obama and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak met in Washington on Tuesday for a landmark summit in which they agreed to build a regional and global "strategic alliance" to persuade North Korea to dismantle all its nuclear weapons. Obama declared North Korea a "grave threat" to the world and pledged that the new U.N. sanctions on the communist regime will be aggressively enforced.

In Seoul, Vice Unification Minister Hong Yang-ho told a forum Thursday that the North's moves to strengthen its nuclear programs is "a very dangerous thing that can fundamentally change" the regional security environment. He said the South Korean government is bracing for "all possible scenarios" regarding the nuclear standoff.

The independent International Crisis Group think tank, meanwhile, said the North's massive stockpile of chemical weapons is no less serious a threat to the region than its nuclear arsenal.

It said the North is believed to have between 2,500 and 5,000 tons of chemical weapons, including mustard gas, phosgene, blood agents and sarin. These weapons can be delivered with ballistic missiles and long-range artillery and are "sufficient to inflict massive civilian casualties on South Korea."

"If progress is made on rolling back Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions, there could be opportunities to construct a cooperative diplomatic solution for chemical weapons and the suspected biological weapons program," the think tank said in a report released Thursday.

It also called on the U.S. to engage the North in dialogue to defuse the nuclear crisis, saying "diplomacy is the least bad option." The think tank said Washington should be prepared to send a high-level special envoy to Pyongyang to resolve the tension.

In a rare move, leaders of Russia and China used their meetings in Moscow on Wednesday to pressure the North to return to the nuclear talks and expressed "serious concerns" about tension on the Korean peninsula.

The joint appeal appeared to be a signal that Moscow and Beijing are growing impatient with Pyongyang's stubbornness. Northeastern China and Russia's Far East both border North Korea, and Pyongyang's unpredictable actions have raised concern in both countries.

After meetings at the Kremlin, Chinese President Hu Jintao joined Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in urging a peaceful resolution of the Korean standoff and the "swiftest renewal" of the now-frozen talks involving their countries as well as North and South Korea, Japan and the United States.

"Russia and China are ready to foster the lowering of tension in Northeast Asia and call for the continuation of efforts by all sides to resolve disagreements through peaceful means, through dialogue and consultations," their statement said.

The comments — contained in a lengthy statement that discussed other global issues — included no new initiatives, but it appeared to be carefully worded to avoid provoking Pyongyang. In remarks after their meetings, Medvedev made only a brief reference to North Korea, and Hu did not mention it.

South Korea's Lee said Wednesday in Washington that was essential for China and Russia to "actively cooperate" in getting the North to give up its nuclear program, suggesting the North's bombs program may trigger a regional arms race.

"If we acknowledge North Korea possessing nuclear programs, other non-nuclear countries in Northeast Asia would be tempted to possess nuclear weapons and this would not be helpful for stability in Northeast Asia," Lee said in a meeting with former U.S. officials and Korea experts, according to his office.

North Korea may fire a missile toward Hawaii | TPM News Pages

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by JDTC

It's probably a diversion.

I'm sure they are doing everything they can to get countries, like ours, to give them a ton of money/food/oil or whatever to make them stop. Obama has said he is not going to fall for it. I really, really want him to make good on that promise.

[Meshell]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Now NK is saying they are going to shoot a missile toward Hawaii on or around July 4th. We are sending more anti missile ships to the area.

Sure am glad we got those things working. I know people here were pissed about having them, but this is exactly what they are great for.

Investing in a missle defense system was/is critical. I have never understood the objection to them from an American point of view.

[Photon1001]

Originally Posted by Meshell

Investing in a missle defense system was/is critical. I have never understood the objection to them from an American point of view.

I believe the main thing in conventional wisdom and such was that it might be possible for, however unlikely, a real badass tyrant could at some point be elected/appointed/selected by the supreme court/etc to the reigns of American power, ans cine every technological advance bears a double edge sword and such..

[JDTC]

I just don't believe Kim Jong-Il would be stupid enough to provoke the United States, and/or her allies, into war like that. Even if NK manages to turn South into a desolate waste, they're still going to be destroyed themselves. I don't think they're ready to give up the power they have over their populace yet.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Meshell

Investing in a missle defense system was/is critical. I have never understood the objection to them from an American point of view.

We dumped Billions of dollars into a wasteful defense system that can occasionally hit an incoming missile under controlled tests.

[Meshell]

Originally Posted by Scrum

We dumped Billions of dollars into a wasteful defense system that can occasionally hit an incoming missile under controlled tests.

The Patriot Missile Defense system stopped more than an occasional SCUD. Yeah, I know they aren't quite the same but in a computer age where Moore's Law has held true since about 1958 it's just a matter of time until they are perfected. Processor speed keeps getting faster and faster.

Since the invention of the integrated circuit in 1958, the number of transistors that can be placed inexpensively on an integrated circuit has increased exponentially, doubling approximately every two years.

Almost every measure of the capabilities of digital electronic devices is strongly linked to Moore's law: processing speed, memory capacity, sensors and even the number and size of pixels in digital cameras.

Moore's Law

[ChadLS]

Originally Posted by JDTC

I just don't believe Kim Jong-Il would be stupid enough to provoke the United States, and/or her allies, into war like that. Even if NK manages to turn South into a desolate waste, they're still going to be destroyed themselves. I don't think they're ready to give up the power they have over their populace yet.

Idk, I think he would. He realizes that his country's economy is falling apart and with Obama's promise to cut the aid going to NK, that could be the final blow to their economy.

They probably blame the U.S. for their current situation, because we drove them out of SK during the war. So if they are going to go out, they probably want to find a way to take some Americans with them.

Plus Kim Jong-Il is batshit crazy lol.

[Photon1001]

well if you believe the Japanese media, NK currently should not be able to hit Hawaii's main islands at least..

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Scrum

We dumped Billions of dollars into a wasteful defense system that can occasionally hit an incoming missile under controlled tests.

The last missile tests were "real life" tests. The rocket fired and then they let the missile system acquire and fire. It was successful.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

The last missile tests were "real life" tests. The rocket fired and then they let the missile system acquire and fire. It was successful.

Even if it were only successful half the time I'd prefer to have it up and running when NK is firing long range missiles at US soil. But that's just me...

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by Meshell

Investing in a missle defense system was/is critical. I have never understood the objection to them from an American point of view.

The objection was twofold....they were very expensive and they didn't work very well. However, they do seem to be improving the accuracy.

[Photon1001]

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

The objection was twofold....they were very expensive and they didn't work very well. However, they do seem to be improving the accuracy.

They'll probably get cheaper too, which means there'll be more of them, which is probably a good thing, provided no single person or country holds a monopoly, of course.

[Meshell]

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

The objection was twofold....they were very expensive and they didn't work very well. However, they do seem to be improving the accuracy.

Hitting an ICMB or missile despite all of the complications is mathematics. They have that part down semi to fairly well, the scientific skepticism surrounding a defense is if the enemy is able to use electronics to confuse or cloak the missile. Our defense isn't nearly as effective when these type of tests are conducted. But I still believe the answer is within our reach. It's not like we have to defy physics to stop an ICBM and our computers are getting faster.

And the biggest threat of incoming missiles is seemingly from countries or groups that aren't all that advanced. I presume it will always take advancements to stay ahead of the game.

[avsp]

The NK regime should go ask China for whatever aid they need. It's a creature of China & China's problem.

An objection to the development of anti-missile systems is that it can be seen as de-stabilising the balance of terror status quo, ..., "Quick! Nuke them now before their new defence system is 100%, otherwise they'll surely nuke us from behind its cover"

[Stylerod]

God Dammit. Here we go again. This can only mean that we are, again, going to give NK something so that they will be good boys and girls. Rewarding for bad behavior.

US Shifts Policy, Willing to Meet 1-on-1 With North Korea

September 11, 2009 4:08 PM

The US shifted its policy today, saying it is now willing to meet one on one with North Korea if that is helpful to bring Pyongyang back to the nuclear negotiations.

US envoy Stephen Bosworth got the green light from the other members of the 6-party talks, negotiations to rid Pyongyang of its nuclear program, during meetings in the region in recent days.

North Korea has extended an invitation for Bosworth to visit Pyongyang, but officials say it’s unclear where or when a meeting could take place.

“It's designed to convince North Korea to come back to the six- party process and to take affirmative steps towards denuclearization,” State Department spokesman PJ Crowley said of the decision to meet.

Speaking on background, a senior US official said: “Our assessment, after consulting with the other parties in the six-party process, is that if a bilateral discussion can be an effective mechanism to get North Korea to come back to the six-party process… so that we can remind them of what their obligations are and to push them to take affirmative steps… then that would be a potentially useful step.”

I hope I'm reading this wrong and we don't fall into the same old trap.