Hillary Clinton Advisor mocks McCain's POW Experience

JaJae · 10-14-2006, 08:38 PM

Ok, this is just low. Lower than low. Hillary's camp has stooped to new levels here.

McCain has come out criticizing the past 15 years of American policy for N. Korea. This of course includes her hubby I-did-not-have-sex-with-that-woman Clinton.

What exactly came out of her camp:

Privately, Hillary’s camp was not overly upset by the McCain swipe because it suspected he was doing the bidding of the White House and that he ended up, as one adviser put it, “looking similar to the way he did on those captive tapes from Hanoi, where he recited the names of his crew mates.”

I obviously have a problem with this. I'm not a big fan of McCain. That's no secret. But seriously, this is below the belt. McCain speaking against N. Korean policies is just him doing the White House's bidding like he was doing the bidding of Vietnam during captivity by releasing information after being tortured daily for over half a decade?

I mean come on.. this is low. Hillary called McCain, I assume to apologize. But, this could be a talking point if she ever runs against McCain.

motivez · 10-14-2006, 08:42 PM

Wow, that's really shitty, even if McCain has gotten off the Straight Talk Express in favor of the NeoConRhetoric Whipping Boy Tractor

I'd be willing to bet this guy resigns or is fired over the comment, and I'm not sure someones staff can be seen as talking for Hillary when the comment was made privately.

Thorgrim · 10-14-2006, 08:42 PM

Hillary's camp is beyond huge, to control what advisors say off the record is basically impossible

I bet she couldn't even find out who said it if she tried...I don't see where this thread is going

JaJae · 10-14-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'd be willing to bet this guy resigns or is fired over the comment, and I'm not sure someones staff can be seen as talking for Hillary when the comment was made privately.

I agree. I'm not blaming Clinton for it. She did the right thing by apologizing so quickly. McCain hasn't made a formal acceptance of any apology publicly just yet.

And I would bet if Hillary finds the source the person will be given the boot. They'd be a serious liability to her presidential bid.

I just found this appalling and wanted to share.

It's getting real dirty lately. With Dems attacking Steele for his color. Now McCain for his POW status. Foley sexing the minors. It's just getting pretty shitty and the election year is starting to heat up.

6SpeedTA95 · 10-15-2006, 12:13 AM

Wow...this is

I bet this person gets the boot. I mean I dislike hellary but I dunno that she'd say something like this privately.

R-Type · 10-15-2006, 12:17 AM

I fail to see how this is any worse than those republicans who shit on kerry's wartime experiences/medals just to make their own candidate look better. Anyone who has to resort to that kind of talk, unless there is obvious proof of deception (eg AWOL charges), is stooping too low. Since very few of politicians these days ever truely served on the frontlines of any real war, they shouldn't be talking this way.

7960 · 10-15-2006, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by R-Type

I fail to see how this is any worse than those republicans who shit on kerry's wartime experiences/medals ........

mccain was a POW stuck in a cell for 6 years and was beaten so badly he can't raise his hands above his head.

kerry showed up to vietnam with a camera, shot himself and got a medal for it, then engineered his departure when he had enough film footage to use for future political campaigns.

there's a pretty big difference between kerry and mccain.

Scrum · 10-15-2006, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

kerry showed up to vietnam with a camera, shot himself and got a medal for it, then engineered his departure when he had enough film footage to use for future political campaigns.

Pathetic.

You just did the same garbage this thread is talking about.

7960 · 10-15-2006, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Pathetic.

You just did the same garbage this thread is talking about.

Not when it's fact...the shit hillary's camp said about mccain is bullshit. He said those names because there was a gun to his head. Even the military recognizes that nothing said while a POW is worth a dick, but NOOOOOooooooooooooooo!!!!! He said names so he's on par with kerry.

Fuck that.

Thorgrim · 10-15-2006, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Pathetic.

You just did the same garbage this thread is talking about.

at

kerry showed up to vietnam with a camera, shot himself and got a medal for it

On this occasion, Kerry was in tactical command of his Swift boat and two others. Their mission included bringing a demolition team and dozens of South Vietnamese soldiers to destroy enemy sampans, structures and bunkers. The passengers were let off for a firefight. Kerry broke from the fight and sailed a short distance along the Bay Hap river, running into an ambush. An RPG was fired at the boat. Kerry directed the boats "to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions" and he "expertly directed" his boat's fire and coordinated the deployment of the South Vietnamese troops, according to Admiral Zumwalt's original medal citation, which critics have complained was based on Kerry's own self-report.
Silver Star Citation - John Kerry - Wikisource

Again, based on Kerry's reports, Kerry's commanding officer, Lieutenant George Elliott, joked that he didn't know whether to court-martial him for beaching the boat without orders or give him a medal for saving the crew. Elliott recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and Zumwalt flew into An Thoi to personally award medals to Kerry and the rest of the sailors involved in the mission. The Navy's account of Kerry's actions is presented in the original medal citation signed by Zumwalt. In addition, the after-action reports for this mission are available, along with the original press release written on March 1, a historical summary dated March 17, and more.
John Kerry's Vietnam medals

and also from Wikipedia is James Rassmann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, Kerry was a bad campaigner and is old news, but the sheer rage against him is outstanding...I never HATED Bob Dole, or GHWB...

Ontop of this, McCain did not give a vigorous defense during Kerry's "swiftboating" and he knew of stuff like this happening to him, yet to keep his chances in 2008, he let it all slide

So, if someone said to me "Look at how McCain let that slide, yet how angry he got in 2000? What a hypocrit, fuck him, if he's going to let others sling dirt about Vietnam on someone, lets cheer if someone else slings mud on him"

I don't think I'd have much of an argument, I'd just respectfully disagree

If the GOP is going to go around smearing Vets, I'm not going to write letters to every Democrat asking that they condemn every 527 that would attack McCain's service

Thorgrim · 10-15-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

He said those names because there was a gun to his head. Even the military recognizes that nothing said while a POW is worth a dick, but NOOOOOooooooooooooooo!!!!! He said names so he's on par with kerry.

That's all speculation and conjecture

R-Type · 10-15-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Not when it's fact...the shit hillary's camp said about mccain is bullshit. He said those names because there was a gun to his head. Even the military recognizes that nothing said while a POW is worth a dick, but NOOOOOooooooooooooooo!!!!! He said names so he's on par with kerry.

Fuck that.

excuse me? did you even read my whole statement? no you read what you wanted to read I guess.. I specifically stated NO ONE should be dissing military servicemen in this way.. and unless you personally have served time behind the lines during a major war, I don't think you are in a position to judge either.

Oh, they don't just throw medals around you know. If kerry got three of them, then hey, he must've done SOMETHING besides shooting himself in the foot. What republican scandalhouse did you read that from? If it's ok to spin kerry's record/actions way out of context, then it's ok to spin mccain's as well.. you can't have it both ways. Personally, I'd rather not see any of that kind of talk...from anyone. ...nevermind the fact that both situations were just lame attempts by the opposition to diss the integrity of the politician in question instead of promoting their candidates' virtues. Lame. No wonder no one votes these days.

motivez · 10-15-2006, 01:53 AM

I personally find it unbelievable that someone is going to enlist in a war and take a video camera with the presence of mind and foresight that somehow it's going to be a political boon.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever even seen any footage of Kerry from Vietnam. If that was his plan, he sure wasn't very successful.

I'd also like some kind of proof and backup for those statements (accusations) because I was pretty sure that most of them had been thoroughly debunked.

7960 · 10-15-2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

FrontPage magazine.com :: John Kerry's Puzzling Silver Star Citations by Henry Mark Holzer and Erika Holzer

7960 · 10-15-2006, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'd also like some kind of proof and backup for those statements (accusations) because I was pretty sure that most of them had been thoroughly debunked.

Even the doc who treated him?

In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time. (Letson says he has had no contacts with anyone from the Bush campaign or the Republican party.) What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.

John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.

He got a purple heart for a wound that was covered with a bandaid.

Originally Posted by R-Type

Oh, they don't just throw medals around you know. If kerry got three of them, then hey, he must've done SOMETHING besides shooting himself in the foot..

Arm.... and when a 4-star general finds it necessary to change a report in a junior officer's medical record, something's up.

Thorgrim · 10-15-2006, 02:00 AM

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k...PDFs/Upton.pdf

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k...DFs/Gibson.pdf

Chicago Tribune news | Registration

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k.../PDFs/Droz.pdf

> someone writing "John Kerry: the ultimate fake warrior" and using all his knowledge...not to bring up conflicting accounts, but to look at paper work not be 100% as a sign the whole thing is a fraud

I'll take the word of veterans who were there over someone trying to make a buck based on attacking Kerry

Thorgrim · 10-15-2006, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Even the doc who treated him?
In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time. (Letson says he has had no contacts with anyone from the Bush campaign or the Republican party.) What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.

John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.
He got a purple heart for a wound that was covered with a bandaid.

Arm.... and when a 4-star general finds it necessary to change a report in a junior officer's medical record, something's up.

FactCheck.org Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record

7960 · 10-15-2006, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k...PDFs/Upton.pdf

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k...DFs/Gibson.pdf

Chicago Tribune news | Registration

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/k.../PDFs/Droz.pdf

> someone writing "John Kerry: the ultimate fake warrior" and using all his knowledge...not to bring up conflicting accounts, but to look at paper work not be 100% as a sign the whole thing is a fraud

I'll take the word of veterans who were there over someone trying to make a buck based on attacking Kerry

how was the doctor who treated him trying to make a buck?