Dow breaks 12,000, good progress, but not the top story

Thorgrim · 10-18-2006, 11:24 AM

See, Democrats like good economic news, and its twice as good when Iraq is going to be the headline story tonight, I'd rather it be about how we're changing course, but instead because of Bush it has to be about dead soldiers

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when the average indepedent viewer sees the Iraq story, shakes his head at 10 dead US soldiers, he'll hear the other story about the dow hitting 12,000 and think "I don't feel any richer?" the disapproval of Bush's handling of the economy will continue

ballz2wallz · 10-18-2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

the disapproval of Bush's handling of the economy will continue

From whom?

Thorgrim · 10-18-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

From whom?

the majority of the voters

ballz2wallz · 10-18-2006, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

the majority of the voters

Link to where the majority of voters think the economy is in the stinkhole?

WickedLou9 · 10-18-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Link to where the majority of voters think the economy is in the stinkhole?

That's not what he is saying. The voters don't think BUsh handled the economy as well as he should have.

ballz2wallz · 10-18-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

That's not what he is saying. The voters don't think BUsh handled the economy as well as he should have.

I'm not sure Bush should have done anything differently. The economy is great; what should Bush have changed?

Thorgrim · 10-18-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not sure Bush should have done anything differently. The economy is great; what should Bush have changed?

I dunno, ask the voters when they vote in the Dems Nov 7th

Stylerod · 10-18-2006, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I dunno, ask the voters when they vote in the Dems Nov 7th

PetriW · 10-18-2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not sure Bush should have done anything differently. The economy is great; what should Bush have changed?

How can the economy be great when your national debt is increasing about $1.6 billion per day?

ballz2wallz · 10-18-2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I dunno, ask the voters when they vote in the Dems Nov 7th

You made the claim; you should know wtf you're talking about.

ballz2wallz · 10-18-2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by PetriW

How can the economy be great when your national debt is increasing about $1.6 billion per day?

They aren't related.

PetriW · 10-18-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

They aren't related.

Well, someday you have to pay the debt, I guess that's during a low in the economy? Or maybe when the democrats are in power?

Scrum · 10-18-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

How can the economy be great when your national debt is increasing about $1.6 billion per day?

Deficit spending helps create the illusion of things going better than they are.

It's like people who live outside their means using credit cards. Eventually you will have to pay for it and then you're screwed.

Scrum · 10-18-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

Well, someday you have to pay the debt, I guess that's during a low in the economy? Or maybe when the democrats are in power?

China will be more than happy to take some of that over for us.

WickedLou9 · 10-18-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

Well, someday you have to pay the debt, I guess that's during a low in the economy? Or maybe when the democrats are in power?

Yes and no. Governments are not like people. the debt never comes due really. they can keep rolling it over so long as there are people willing to invest in the US dollar.

7960 · 10-18-2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I dunno, ask the voters when they vote in the Dems Nov 7th

Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

PetriW · 10-18-2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Yes and no. Governments are not like people. the debt never comes due really. they can keep rolling it over so long as there are people willing to invest in the US dollar.

Which will probably become more and more of a problem.

Anyway, debt is usually accompained by a rent, the Swedish one sure does and last time I checked that was a quite respectable amount of money being paid each month.

DosEquis · 10-18-2006, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by PetriW

Which will probably become more and more of a problem.

Anyway, debt is usually accompained by a rent, the Swedish one sure does and last time I checked that was a quite respectable amount of money being paid each month.

We pay approximately 350 billion a year in interest on our debt right now. By 2008 the interest payments will probably exceed 400 billion.

PetriW · 10-18-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

I actually had a Jehovas guy use this in an argument the other day.

6SpeedTA95 · 10-18-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Deficit spending helps create the illusion of things going better than they are.

It's like people who live outside their means using credit cards. Eventually you will have to pay for it and then you're screwed.

This is a poor argument for continuing economic growth. Initially it can be used if a drastic increase in government spending results. Thats why increased government spending and/or tax cuts in recessions is a good thing. The difference is a temporary increase in spending results in a temporary boost, but possibly enough to turn around a recession, where as a tax cut has a lasting affect on individuals in the economy that shift supply/demand into areas that the market actually dictates.

Deficit spending is not a good thing IMO as it can actually cause economic growth to slow which it was on the verge of doing for about 18 months. It crowds out the private sector in a lot of cases which is where you run into issues with government spending. If the spending had been decreased economic activity probably would have been higher.

The deficit now is less than 3% GDP and that is lower than MANY other industrialized nations and viewed as easily sustainable by most economist. I prefer a surplus in times of economic expansion it is by far the best monetary policy as it keeps government effectively out of the money borrowing sectors of the market which has an impact on all businesses. However, we're still 2 to 4 years away from running a surplus in this country. But the deficit continues to fall and saying that the government spending as of late is propping up the economy is just a cop out to again try to brush off the impacts of the tax cuts and how well this economy is doing.

Another interesting note is how John Kerry has changed his stance on the stock market. In 2004 and up until August of this year in his speeches he touted the stock market as being an important indicator of how the economy was doing. Stating that this administration had 4, 5 or 6 years and the market had actually lost money. This past weekend, now that the market broke the record he said the market is not a good indicator of the economic progress the nation is making. Which is it John?