This was a good movie especially compelling regarding how many WWII veterans feel. My grandfather never though of himself as a hero, in fact none of the guys I met felt as if they were hero's. The movie goes to point out the fact that in many if not most ...
10-21-2006, 09:54 PM
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| Administrator  libertarian Oklahoma 
| Flags of Our Fathers = good movie... This was a good movie especially compelling regarding how many WWII veterans feel. My grandfather never though of himself as a hero, in fact none of the guys I met felt as if they were hero's. The movie goes to point out the fact that in many if not most cases these guys dont want to be hero's they want to be people that merely stood up for what they believed in. That went over and performed their job to the best of their ability. Society merely labels them as hero's. I thought overall this was a good movie that all should see. However, it is emotionally difficult at times so keep that in mind if/when you choose to see this movie. | ||||
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10-21-2006, 09:58 PM
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| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| Not to make this political right off the bat, but what do you think about the "no black people" issue? | ||||
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10-21-2006, 11:03 PM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by motivez What? 
 There was a couple black people in the movie, they just didn't have big roles because the movie is about the people involved specifically with the raising of the flag. | ||||
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10-22-2006, 02:24 AM
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| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California
| Did the portray the American Indian who raised the flag? I'm just wondering because of the 6 that raised it, only 3 of them made it home, and he had the hardest time adjusting back into life. Just wondering how they depicted him. I've read some stuff on him, and it sounds like he had a really hard time. It changed my view of that memorial. | ||||
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10-22-2006, 03:29 PM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland Yes they did and thats how they depicted it. It was fairly accurate based on what I know about it. Yes Ira had the hardest time adjusting and they mentioned that.
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10-22-2006, 07:10 PM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 Reading about him, and the amount of death at Iwa Jima, made me realize the pointless concrete that is a war memorial.
Well, I'd like to see it, I hope I get the chance! | ||||
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10-22-2006, 11:10 PM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland You think war memorials are pointless?
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10-23-2006, 04:51 AM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 I don't think they will ever do 250K dead soldiers justice for their sacrifice. I don't think they really represent war acurately.
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10-23-2006, 05:00 AM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| On Passing the new Menin Gate by Siegfried Sassoon Who will remember, passing through this Gate, The unheroic Dead who fed the guns? Who shall absolve the foulness of their fate,— Those doomed, conscripted, unvictorious ones? Crudely renewed, the Salient holds its own. Paid are its dim defenders by this pomp; Paid, with a pile of peace-complacent stone, The armies who endured that sullen swamp. Here was the world’s worst wound. And here with pride ‘Their name liveth for ever,’ the Gateway claims. Was ever an immolation so belied As these intolerably nameless names? Well might the Dead who struggled in the slime Rise and deride this sepulchre of crime. Begun Brussels, 25 July 1927; finished Campden Hill Square, January 1928 54,889 names are engraved on the gate. | ||||
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10-23-2006, 08:14 AM
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| minor irritant &/or non-entity News Moderator Contrarian Birmingham, UK
| I know of a war memorial where, years ago, an old man would often scream and sob. Made it all the more 'real' I suppose. | ||||
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10-23-2006, 08:22 AM
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| America Fuck Yea Election Moderator  Republican In Name Only
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland then you don't understand the memorial, regardless of Ira Hayes
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10-23-2006, 09:55 AM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland The point isn't to represent war accurately but instead to pay tribute to those who gave their lives in defense of our country, our freedoms, our fellow men/women.
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10-23-2006, 12:32 PM
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| Never, never, never give up  Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland WTF
That is one of the strangest comments I have ever heard. | ||||
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10-23-2006, 02:15 PM
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| Junkie  Conservative Party
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland Well that isnt what they are trying to do.
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10-23-2006, 10:17 PM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by kinggovernor Yeah, I understand the memorial. I know that that picture was used to market the war and raise morale, and then when the survivors came home they were used to raise money for bonds.
Kinda like seeing a circus freak and then the money goes to the government. I don't believe that soldiers who came out of either WWI or II really wanted this, from some that I've read, and many post modern writers were greatly affected by the atrocities that they themselves witnessed in Europe and Asia during this time period. War memorials are hoisted with the right reasons. The Memorial itself is to represent every soldier that has ever died in any battle for their country. It isn't a memorial just for WWII, it's for every war since 1776. But, I don't look at a chunk of carved concrete, and I don't believe that it does any justice to the amount of death and carnage that people my own age have faced. We see the good stuff, the flag being raised, and we feel warm and fuzzy looking at bravery. But there is so much that we don't see, and so much that is seen by the people that were there that I'm sure they would like to forget, but can't. | ||||
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10-23-2006, 10:19 PM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 I understand that. To me, it doesn't do justice as a tribute.
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10-24-2006, 04:19 AM
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| America Fuck Yea Election Moderator Republican In Name Only
| Originally Posted by IminWonderland the money went to the cause which was keeping this country free
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10-24-2006, 10:25 AM
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| minor irritant &/or non-entity News Moderator Contrarian Birmingham, UK
| the state uses imagery to manipulate peoples patriotism to their own ends war memorials dont depict bloody blown apart bodies for a reason Personally i've not found war memorials 'usefull' for me, ..., however travelling by bus through most large british cities enables one to see the entire place as a war memorial [edit] urban planning by H Goering & associates [/edit] most days i give thanks for the sacrifices made in WWII by the allied peoples Last edited by avsp; 10-24-2006 at 02:40 PM.. | ||||
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10-24-2006, 01:11 PM
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| One American Family at a Time. Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by avsp
I agree. It reminds me of the poem GRASS by Sandburg PILE the bodies high at Austerlitz and Waterloo. Shovel them under and let me work— I am the grass; I cover all. And pile them high at Gettysburg And pile them high at Ypres and Verdun. 5 Shovel them under and let me work. Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor: What place is this? Where are we now? I am the grass. 10 Let me work. | ||||
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10-25-2006, 05:46 AM
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| Last Starfighter  Independent Northern California
| That Indian's name is Ira Hayes and : JOHNNY CASH LYRICS "The Ballad Of Ira Hayes" Ira Hayes, Ira Hayes [CHORUS:] Call him drunken Ira Hayes He won't answer anymore Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian Nor the Marine that went to war Gather round me people there's a story I would tell About a brave young Indian you should remember well From the land of the Pima Indian A proud and noble band Who farmed the Phoenix valley in Arizona land Down the ditches for a thousand years The water grew Ira's peoples' crops 'Till the white man stole the water rights And the sparklin' water stopped Now Ira's folks were hungry And their land grew crops of weeds When war came, Ira volunteered And forgot the white man's greed [CHORUS:] Call him drunken Ira Hayes He won't answer anymore Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian Nor the Marine that went to war There they battled up Iwo Jima's hill, Two hundred and fifty men But only twenty-seven lived to walk back down again And when the fight was over And when Old Glory raised Among the men who held it high Was the Indian, Ira Hayes [CHORUS:] Call him drunken Ira Hayes He won't answer anymore Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian Nor the Marine that went to war Ira returned a hero Celebrated through the land He was wined and speeched and honored; Everybody shook his hand But he was just a Pima Indian No water, no crops, no chance At home nobody cared what Ira'd done And when did the Indians dance [CHORUS:] Call him drunken Ira Hayes He won't answer anymore Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian Nor the Marine that went to war Then Ira started drinkin' hard; Jail was often his home They'd let him raise the flag and lower it like you'd throw a dog a bone! He died drunk one mornin' Alone in the land he fought to save Two inches of water in a lonely ditch Was a grave for Ira Hayes [CHORUS:] Call him drunken Ira Hayes He won't answer anymore Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian Nor the Marine that went to war Yeah, call him drunken Ira Hayes But his land is just as dry And his ghost is lyin' thirsty In the ditch where Ira died | ||||
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