Originally Posted by JaJae Of course individual climate scientists are going to protect their professions. That's abundantly clear. I wouldn't expect anything else from them. He doesn't work as a climate scientist. He is the Director of Climate Science and reports directly to the Chief Executive of the Met Office. ...
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| Science is the poetry of reality. Humanist Virginia ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by JaJae He doesn't work as a climate scientist. He is the Director of Climate Science and reports directly to the Chief Executive of the Met Office. If he is being quoted by BBC and CNN, you can be sure it is the official response of the Met Office. I notice that The Times article that you posted didn't actually quote anyone from the Met Office either. In fact, who is their source exactly?
Last edited by Schrödinger's Cat; 12-06-2009 at 05:14 PM.. | ||||
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| | #142 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Willis Eschenbach (skeptic) got a hold of some raw data for Australia to see how they adjust the data they use and he thinks he found a smoking gun. Here is the adjusted data provided to the UN vs the Raw data. ![]() Clearly we see a rather large adjustment.
![]() His assessment:
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| | #143 | ||||
| ἀλήθεια Humanist while (1) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Just as I assumed a denier blog would jump all over it. Homogenized data are not some magical tricks employed by scientists to deceive. If you know what homogenized means, you can probably guess with a decent level of accuracy what homogenized data are. But, since it's being passed off here as deception by some people's political convictions, let's analyze it a little deeper. Since data are never perfect, i.e. some data contain holes, some data are sparse, some data do not match the rest of the world data, much of this, especially in climate modeling, is homogenized. The blog JaJae quotes actually quotes a site regarding what exactly homogenization is:
From the same paper
http://icoads.noaa.gov/Boulder/Boulder.Wright.pdf What is the long and short of this explanation? Data homogenization isn't what the blog wants you to believe. It is a process employed by much of science for trend fitting, and later model building. In a previous post (link), I have explained just why models are valuable to all of science, and provided an example of how models can, and generally are, quite accurate. SC followed up with another example (link).
__________________ History is a nightmare from which I'm trying to awake. --Stephen Dedalus (by way of Joyce) | ||||
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| | #144 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| "Climategate" is collapsing under its own weight. As the days go by, more and more scientists, scientific organizations, and people are realizing what a weak house of cards this "scandal" really is. Science forgotten in climate emails fuss | Myles Allen | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
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| | #145 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| "Climategate" - the non-story of the decade! Questions and answers on the climate e-mail controversy - Politics AP - MiamiHerald.com
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| | #146 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| ![]() Even factcheck.org, a fact-checking website endorsed by no less a conservative figurehead than former Republican Vice President Dick Cheney himself, says "Climategate" is unfounded! “Climategate” | FactCheck.org
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| | #147 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| "Climategate" is getting buried like something you might find in a cats' litter box. Open Letter to Congress from U.S. Scientists on Climate Change and Recently Stolen Emails (posting from Climate Science Watch)
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| | #148 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| It doesn't end there! Does anyone else who isn't already a blind partisan need any more proof that "Climategate" is just a bunch of overblown hooey? AAAS - AAAS News Release - "AAAS Reaffirms Statements on Climate Change and Integrity"
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| | #149 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| The Great "Climategate" pile-on! This bullshit scandal is getting absolutely DEMOLISHED. One more, just one more for my all-time favorite forum thread, the thread that finally, finally put the last nail in the coffin of global warming deniers. You guys had a great run, but science and history are leaving you in the dust! It couldn't happen to a nicer group of folks! I look forward to all of you continuing to ignore every post in favor of more personal insults, because apparently that's all you got! Impact of CRU Hacking on the AMS Statement on Climate Change
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| | #150 | ||||
| Humanitarian and musician Independent Bradford, PA ![]()
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| | #151 | ||||
| ἀλήθεια Humanist while (1) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| We all know Burgundy is a liberal Obamatard, but this might be one of his best write ups. Originally Posted by AP IMPACT: Science not faked, but not pretty AP IMPACT: Science not faked, but not pretty
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| | #152 | ||||
| Yeah, that guy. Progressive Oregon ![]()
| Originally Posted by HughRuss
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| | #153 | ||||
| Earl Duke of Gonzo Moderate The Dirty Soufff JerZ ![]()
| I find it amusing someone can hack into the email accounts of these guys but they can't retype or reword any of the emails to fit their agenda. | ||||
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| | #154 | ||||
| ἀλήθεια Humanist while (1) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| | #155 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by Salty Dog I still find it incredible that they stole 160mb of data from a period of over 10 years, they posted over 1,000 e-mails, but after all that it's still only about a page and a half of shady statements by less than half a dozen scientists that are grabbing attention. And NO evidence of data falsification.
Some "scandal". | ||||
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| | #156 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by HughRuss Wow, it just never ends, does it? "Climategate" definitely is, and continues to be, day after day, the most anemic "scandal" that I think I've ever seen in my life. Notice how all the good folks here who thought that this actually meant something can't manage to raise a peep in response now?
Pretty pathetic, but absolutely no surprise. | ||||
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| | #157 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up Independent High Point, NC ![]()
| Originally Posted by HughRuss That's a pretty good write up and proves that the scientists were worried about people double checking their data and purposely avoided sharing it. If their results were air tight they wouldn't have worried about giving it away. Also I think we all knew this: "concerns could be raised about some instances of very 'generous interpretations." It's in their best interest to exaggerate on the side of bad.
It's not ever yet. Now that is seems that they have no choice but to share data this will go on for some time as groups try to recreate their findings. If they did nothing wrong they should have nothing to worry about.
__________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." | ||||
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| | #158 | ||||
| Science is the poetry of reality. Humanist Virginia ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by Stylerod The people making the FOI requests weren't academic researchers trying to recreate the findings; they were amateurs that were repeatedly harassing these scientists. The frustration and reluctance of Jones is understandable. Academic research units can get all of the raw data for free without having to make FOI requests.
Most of the data has been available to the public for a long time. The raw data that isn't available cannot be given to third parties, regardless of an FOI request, due to agreements with the NMSs. And regardless of the frustrations and opinions individuals may have expressed to their peers in private emails, the individual researchers actually have little control over that.
The availability of CRU data for other researchers to recreate the findings of CRU is not an issue. Not only did other researchers recreate the CRU findings, they did it years ago with independent data sets.
Last edited by Schrödinger's Cat; 12-13-2009 at 08:08 PM.. | ||||
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| | #159 | ||||
| Formerly known as Swift-Bass Conservative Baltimore, MD ![]()
| Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere hmmm. There's still something I'm not quite getting here.
But fine. Now that humans are just the most horrible things to happen to the planet. What should we do about it? go back to 1830's "technology"? | ||||
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| | #160 | ||||
| Uberpatriot Liberal Real America ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
| Originally Posted by Swift NO ONE denies that the earth's climate changes naturally. What was ALREADY there might have gotten into the environment without man burning it. The thing is, WITH man, we're putting it into the environment much, much faster than nature and society can adapt. In the last 150 years we've put enough CO2 into the atmosphere to match levels from 15 million years ago.
Originally Posted by Swift We're not the most horrible things on the planet. But come on, we can't expect that we can pump gigatons of pollutants into the atmosphere year after year, decade after decade without it having any effect on the environment.
In my personal opinion, we should do nothing about it. Debating climate change deniers has convinced me that a little mass extinction might do us some good. I don't have any kids and I'm not going to be alive when things get really bad, so what do I care? If I was to advocate some sort of action to mitigate the negative effects of climate change, I agree with the late Michael Crichton. The money and effort would be better spent directly helping those who will be most affected. It's like two guys on a leaky boat. One of them wants to write a letter to the boat company complaining about the leak, and then write another letter to the government asking them to impose better regulations on the construction of future boats. That's all well and good, but the second guy who is putting on a lifejacket and grabbing a bucket to start and bail the water might be the smarter guy in the short run. But, what we should do about it is the only debate left. In the end "Climategate" has in no way changed the fact that the planet is warming, human activity is significantly contributing, and if left unchecked the risks could be serious. | ||||
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