Ok, this makes me insane "House panel passes college football playoff bill"

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by glitterhearts

That actually does make a lot more sense now because last season Utah went undefeated and that's when I started hearing about this kind of stuff on the news.

This sounds vaguely familiar. I don't follow Utah football, but if I recall properly, my university's football team played --and was trounced by-- Utah last year. Perhaps that's why I partially recall it?

You are very welcome for the explanation. There may be a few points I'm not exactly correct on, and I'm sure somebody here can right them, but on the whole, I'm sure my understanding of the system is pretty close to true.

[glitterhearts]

Originally Posted by HughRuss

This sounds vaguely familiar. I don't follow Utah football, but if I recall properly, my university's football team played --and was trounced by-- Utah last year. Perhaps that's why I partially recall it?
.

Alabama was who Utah played in the Sugar Bowl last year.
Here's an older article from after that season.

Deseret News | Utah Utes football: Flawless U. exposes flawed BCS bowl system

(I hope I did the URL right hehe)

[Stylerod]

Screw the economy. Obama's people want to get their noses into College Football

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration is considering several steps that would review the legality of the controversial Bowl Championship Series, the Justice Department said in a letter Friday to a senator who had asked for an antitrust review.

Justice Dept.: President Obama's administration may take action on BCS - NCAA Football - SI.com

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Screw the economy. Obama's people want to get their noses into College Football

Complete misrepresentation of fact. They aren't dropping everything and doing this. They are looking into it...and the request came from Orrin Hatch...a Republican. I guess he has nothing better to do.

[The Great Catpiss]

Forcing the NCAA to change the rules is overstepping their bounds.

If the colleges receive state and federal funding, and the state and federal governments have a problem with the system, they should simply opt out.

If the colleges have a problem with the system, they themselves should opt out.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization. If enough colleges push for change or leave, it will likely change the rules.

P.S. It doesn't matter if the request came in from a Republican or Democrat.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

Forcing the NCAA to change the rules is overstepping their bounds.

If the colleges receive state and federal funding, and the state and federal governments have a problem with the system, they should simply opt out.

If the colleges have a problem with the system, they themselves should opt out.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization. If enough colleges push for change or leave, it will likely change the rules.

P.S. It doesn't matter if the request came in from a Republican or Democrat.

The NCAA and the BCS have so much criminal elements to them I don't know how you can't find SOMETHING to investigate them on. They have been called on exclusionary practices towards blacks and women in the past. This whole "the school makes millions while we give 'free' education to 'deserving' student athletes" is a fraud in itself. I've been in that system and aside from flagrant recruiting violations that go unchecked...oh...and the so called "Alumni" organized crime syndicates...there's no shortage of things to find wrong with that whole system.

They need oversight...question is...who does it?

[stolz25]

Oversight won't matter until popular opinion forces the oversight to do something, but of course at that point you wouldn't need the oversight anyway.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Complete misrepresentation of fact. They aren't dropping everything and doing this. They are looking into it...and the request came from Orrin Hatch...a Republican. I guess he has nothing better to do.

Why even take the time to look into it. It's stupid and guess who has to pay for it? Us.

Orrin Hatch should be fired. Dumbass.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

They need oversight...question is...who does it?

The states that they reside in. Not the White House.

[motivez]

I still don't understand what the fuck business of the federal government what process a football league uses to determine champions

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

I still don't understand what the fuck business of the federal government what process a football league uses to determine champions

I would have to agree. It seems to have started with the interference of steroids in baseball. That was a legal matter and should have been left to law enforcement. But now it seems Congress thinks they have the right to interfere in many other ways. The rules of the league have nothing to do with discrimination or anything that should concern them.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

The NCAA and the BCS have so much criminal elements to them I don't know how you can't find SOMETHING to investigate them on. They have been called on exclusionary practices towards blacks and women in the past. This whole "the school makes millions while we give 'free' education to 'deserving' student athletes" is a fraud in itself. I've been in that system and aside from flagrant recruiting violations that go unchecked...oh...and the so called "Alumni" organized crime syndicates...there's no shortage of things to find wrong with that whole system.

They need oversight...question is...who does it?

Create a new organization with oversight. Ban public schools from other ogranizations.

What will happen? Public colleges will likely disappear from TV, while private colleges that remain in the NCAA get all the airtime.

BTW, Participating in these sports is requires a lot of time and effort. It is not much different than having a job. Most of these athletes will not move on to professional sports.

IMO, the student athletes should be allowed to be paid something for their efforts as well as get free education, if the school feels it is necessary. I do think caps set by the organization are necessary to keep the game exciting and prevent abuse.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by motivez

I still don't understand what the fuck business of the federal government what process a football league uses to determine champions

The federal government provides substantial funding to many of these colleges. There are many good fiscal reasons it would want a fair playing field for the colleges it funds.

My problem is with the government trying to regulate what the private colleges do.

BTW, I believe the first of thousands of promises Pelosi broke when taking control of the house was scheduling paid days off so politicians could attend college football events.

Originally Posted by JaJae

I would have to agree. It seems to have started with the interference of steroids in baseball. That was a legal matter and should have been left to law enforcement. But now it seems Congress thinks they have the right to interfere in many other ways. The rules of the league have nothing to do with discrimination or anything that should concern them.

Pro baseball issues were and should be none of Congress's business.

[wanna be drummer]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

Create a new organization with oversight. Ban public schools from other ogranizations.

What will happen? Public colleges will likely disappear from TV, while private colleges that remain in the NCAA get all the airtime.

BTW, Participating in these sports is requires a lot of time and effort. It is not much different than having a job. Most of these athletes will not move on to professional sports.

IMO, the student athletes should be allowed to be paid something for their efforts as well as get free education, if the school feels it is necessary. I do think caps set by the organization are necessary to keep the game exciting and prevent abuse.

I don't think you fully understand what manyt NCAA players get in terms of perks. Yeah, their college is generally paid for. But they get much more than that. They basically get free food whenever they want. I'm pretty sure many of them don't have to pay for books. They get tutors whenever they want, and their classes are usually lax about their grades and thus, many do well even if the intelligence isn't there. I have a friend who is on MSUs football team and when we went to the Alamo Bowl he got a bunch of shit that most would be jealous of. He's a third-string lineman and he got a gift certificate to Best Buy (I think it was worth $200-300 but he wasn't allowed to sell it of course), a kickass watch, and awesome sunglasses for free.

Paying college kids for playing sports at public universities is, to me, horribly unfair.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

I don't think you fully understand what manyt NCAA players get in terms of perks. Yeah, their college is generally paid for. But they get much more than that. They basically get free food whenever they want. I'm pretty sure many of them don't have to pay for books. They get tutors whenever they want, and their classes are usually lax about their grades and thus, many do well even if the intelligence isn't there. I have a friend who is on MSUs football team and when we went to the Alamo Bowl he got a bunch of shit that most would be jealous of. He's a third-string lineman and he got a gift certificate to Best Buy (I think it was worth $200-300 but he wasn't allowed to sell it of course), a kickass watch, and awesome sunglasses for free.

I know a lot of what goes on, some is unfair, some isn't. Obviously, lax grading is unfair. A lot of the under the table stuff is unfair.

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

Paying college kids for playing sports at public universities is, to me, horribly unfair.

Is it fair that the college profits off of the hard work of these individuals? Could these individuals be working those same hours that they train and getting much more compensation? Why not allow a little real world free market? Let the colleges and players determine how much they get paid, if anything.

How so? It isn't all just fun and games. They are devoting time that could be used at a part time job generating income. The college is profiting off of their hard work.

It is pretty unfair that they arent allowed to be paid at all.

[wanna be drummer]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

I know a lot of what goes on, some is unfair, some isn't. Obviously, lax grading is unfair. A lot of the under the table stuff is unfair.


Is it fair that the college profits off of the hard work of these individuals?

These sports teams are funded through their sales. For example, the football team is essentially making money to pay for coaches, gyms, stadiums, staff, etc. It's not like it's all being put into the pocket of the Board of Directors.

Could these individuals be working those same hours that they train and getting much more compensation? Why not allow a little real world free market? Let the colleges and players determine how much they get paid, if anything.

I think it's bullshit when sports players aren't "allowed" to get real jobs, but the perks they get just for being on the team is reason enough. Giving them scholarships (public money esentially) for sitting on the bench and taking lax classes going towards a major would be bullshit in my eyes. But that's just an opinion of an observer who sees it everyday I guess.

How so? It isn't all just fun and games. They are devoting time that could be used at a part time job generating income. The college is profiting off of their hard work.

I believe the average student at Michigan State graduates with $22k in debt (federal or private) and that doesn't even cover food and living expenses. If you start paying them, then they'd better not be getting full rides and start paying for living/food, etc. like the rest of us.

It is pretty unfair that they arent allowed to be paid at all.

This is all very subjective so I'm just gonna say I disagree. The perks for simply being on the team is payment enough. They should be allowed to get jobs if they want, but outside of that, I don't think so.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

These sports teams are funded through their sales. For example, the football team is essentially making money to pay for coaches, gyms, stadiums, staff, etc. It's not like it's all being put into the pocket of the Board of Directors.

What is your point? They are players on a team that generates revenue for the school. Why shouldn't the school cover their expenses, if it chooses to?

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

I think it's bullshit when sports players aren't "allowed" to get real jobs, but the perks they get just for being on the team is reason enough. Giving them scholarships (public money esentially) for sitting on the bench and taking lax classes going towards a major would be bullshit in my eyes. But that's just an opinion of an observer who sees it everyday I guess.

It seems like you are very jealous.

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

I believe the average student at Michigan State graduates with $22k in debt (federal or private) and that doesn't even cover food and living expenses. If you start paying them, then they'd better not be getting full rides and start paying for living/food, etc. like the rest of us.

Still sounds like you are jealous. Living expenses + $5k/yr is probably less than they would get at a part time job. Yes there are other perks... What if the athlete doesn't care for those other perks?

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

This is all very subjective so I'm just gonna say I disagree. The perks for simply being on the team is payment enough. They should be allowed to get jobs if they want, but outside of that, I don't think so.

It really sounds like more jealousy. Why not let the schools decide how many perks the student athletes deserve?

[wanna be drummer]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

What is your point? They are players on a team that generates revenue for the school. Why shouldn't the school cover their expenses, if it chooses to?

What expenses are you talking about? They already cover the education, living, food, travel, etc. If they didn't play sports and worked for "income" then they'd graduate with debt almost for sure. Seems to me like they already are covering expenses...

It seems like you are very jealous.


Still sounds like you are jealous. Living expenses + $5k/yr is probably less than they would get at a part time job. Yes there are other perks... What if the athlete doesn't care for those other perks?

Bruh...My share of the rent is $570 a month. Thats not including the $40 a month I drop on cable/internet, and electricity. I won't include food, because it varies far too much but for the sake of simplicity let's just say everything is $610 a month. Some students work part time (most that I know don't for some reason..) but we're making around $7.50-8 an hour. Just to cover the living expenses, we'd have to work 20 hours a week to make all that up. No, that doesn't sound like a lot, but throw on 12-16 credit hours of class, not to mention study time, you're not looking at a lot of room to wiggle. Throw at least $10,000 on for tuition (if you're off-campus) and it's just not gonna happen. I work hardcore over the summer but there's just no way I can make it.

Making all of that go away for sitting on a bench as a third string lineman or the 5th pitcher in a rotation, to me, just isn't fair. If a private school wants to do that go for it but for public schools that are giving away public money in the form of scholarships, throwing more to them would just fuck the rest of us over because they'd make up for it by handing us a larger bill. Shit like that happens all the time. Again, if it's a privately funded school, I'm all for it. But i refuse to believe that giving public money to kids to play sports in addition to what they already get is a good thing.

It really sounds like more jealousy. Why not let the schools decide how many perks the student athletes deserve?

I'm jealous of my friend that picks me up in a brand new Camaro when I'm driving a piece of shit Dodge Dynasty but that's irrelevant. yeah I wish I had those kinda perks but that has nothing to do with my stance on this subject. It all comes from the moneys source.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

Making all of that go away for sitting on a bench as a third string lineman or the 5th pitcher in a rotation, to me, just isn't fair.

First of all, not ALL scholarships are full. Second, football doesn't work the same as basketball, baseball and lesser sports because of the numbers. There are 80 + per football team that I believe count as "scholarships". Not all are full scholarships. There were 12 of us on the basketball team when I went to school. 9 of us got money but only 6 were full scholarships. I think the rules allow 13 people getting money...I don't know if it denotes how much.


Anyway, there is a clear have vs have not line drawn out there. If a lot of these people didn't get scholarships, they wouldn't be going to college. Period. That goes both ways for athletics AND academia. What we have to look at here is what a college education is ACTUALLY worth in the real world.

So Bob goes to college 4 years and owes 70K after all is said and done. Was that education worth 70K if he gets a job for 40K? Education costs WAY too much in this country to begin with...


Another part of this is what is an athlete's performance worth...
Tyrone (clearly) gets a football scholarship for 4 years. He's a solid contributor and the school picks up the 70K tab for the 4 years he's there. But guess what? Tyrone and his teammates win a national championship and all told, the school makes over 100 million during his 4 years. Let's say that school gave 80 people FULL SCHOLARSHIPS (not likely, but let's say) and paid all their 70K for 4 years. That's like 5.5 million or so over 4 years...the same 4 years they made 400 million in revenue. Sure they have some expenses...but not that much. Does this seem fair?


Schools make so much money on merchandising...player names...ticket sales...alumni fundraising...government contributions...the list goes on and on.


Here is a list of just what some schools made in 2007/2008 for football.

Orlando Sentinel - College Gridiron 365 Blog – How much revenue did your favorite Football Bowl Subdivision school take in in 2007-08? This chart will tell you

What needs to happen is that the costs of education need to come WAY down. They are not worth as much as they are being price-tagged for. Second, athletes should be paid minimum wage for hours worked. They are there to play their sport...all time spent playing the sport should be compensated for...and essentially the college is hiring them. It's like having a job.

I rambled here, but I really was shocked when I entered into that system to see what a scam it is and have never gotten over it.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

What expenses are you talking about? They already cover the education, living, food, travel, etc. If they didn't play sports and worked for "income" then they'd graduate with debt almost for sure. Seems to me like they already are covering expenses...

If they had a job that had the same requirements of them, they would have most of that paid for as well. It is in the schools best interest to take care of their athletes.

Furthermore, $5k per year + living expenses is not difficult to handle with a job.

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

Bruh...My share of the rent is $570 a month. Thats not including the $40 a month I drop on cable/internet, and electricity. I won't include food, because it varies far too much but for the sake of simplicity let's just say everything is $610 a month. Some students work part time (most that I know don't for some reason..) but we're making around $7.50-8 an hour. Just to cover the living expenses, we'd have to work 20 hours a week to make all that up. No, that doesn't sound like a lot, but throw on 12-16 credit hours of class, not to mention study time, you're not looking at a lot of room to wiggle. Throw at least $10,000 on for tuition (if you're off-campus) and it's just not gonna happen. I work hardcore over the summer but there's just no way I can make it.

Find another job that pays more... I don't get your point. People get paid different amounts a different jobs.

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

Making all of that go away for sitting on a bench as a third string lineman or the 5th pitcher in a rotation, to me, just isn't fair.

That's the real world. There are always going to be people willing to pay people to do stuff that you think is not worth much.

Originally Posted by wanna be drummer

If a private school wants to do that go for it but for public schools that are giving away public money in the form of scholarships, throwing more to them would just fuck the rest of us over because they'd make up for it by handing us a larger bill.

Do they generate more income by having a good team? Let economics and the free market decide what is best for them.