While we all know Bush's strategy for a while has been a 'stay-the-course' strategy, hoping it would work, it seems the administration has changed its mind about how well this strategy will work, and is now considering the option of other alternatives in the approach to this conflict, leaving the ...
10-24-2006, 12:01 PM
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| Banned  Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You 
| Bush's strategy in Iraq While we all know Bush's strategy for a while has been a 'stay-the-course' strategy, hoping it would work, it seems the administration has changed its mind about how well this strategy will work, and is now considering the option of other alternatives in the approach to this conflict, leaving the 'stay-the-course' mantra of the past. Considering all the criticism this administration has received for the policies in Iraq, you would think this change in heart about the approach to the war would bring smiles and relief in the hearts and minds of many, thinking that finally Bush is coming to his senses and altering his strategy, something most of us thought we needed a while ago. But I predict, instead, and different reception...one of more criticism, attacks, and the typical liberal beating that this administration has always gotten. In fact, it's been quite evident even here on this board already, suggesting he's 'flip-flopped'. Is a president not allowed to adjust a military strategy based on successes or failures in a war for fear of being labeled a flip-flopper? Let's not be ridiculous; instead of attacking Bush for anything and everything possible, let's look at the situation instead. He's suggested that it's a possibility we won't stay over there 'no matter what' and we might in fact be approaching a situation which requires a 'timetable'. For all of those who were criticizing him about this before, shouldn't you be somewhat relieved, and perhaps happy (even a little praise for coming to this realization) about this? | ||||
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10-24-2006, 12:03 PM
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| Anti-War, Anti-State, Pro-Free Market  Capitalist
| I have no problem with him changing his policy. I'm glad he is FINALLY thinking about it. What I do have a problem with is stating he was never advocating staying the course.  | ||||
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10-24-2006, 12:06 PM
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| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by lew As I've said before, that is ridiculous. Something seems very fishy about the whole thing really. 
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10-24-2006, 12:14 PM
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| Master Debator Election Moderator  Democrat Omaha, NE
| My two issues are... "I never said we were 'stay the course'" And.. the administration calling those who said we should change the course "defeatocrats" or "white flag democrats" or "cut and runners" or whatever name you can think of. Last night they were talking of setting benchmarks for the Iraqi government to achieve. While i agree with that and think it is good they are changing, they look like complete dick heads chewing on their crow. It is just fun to poke at because they are going to do things that they labeled "helping the terrorists" two months ago | ||||
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10-24-2006, 12:35 PM
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| minor irritant &/or non-entity News Moderator Contrarian Birmingham, UK
| b2w: re your comments about the board culture, ..., did you read JJ's & Boris' debate round this point in a 'body count' thread? 44 US soldiers die in first 12 days of the month...2nd deadliest month of War Whilst i welcome the admins greater flexibility & more realistic appraisal of the situation the planet are still f*cked IMO. It has always been a weakness of the whole enterprise that it is one of total commitment. This coupled with too few troops isnt really going to magically 'solved' by any other action now. The aim now is just to minimise escalation & cope with the fall-out of the failure of the strategy in the first place. This isnt going to be easy, is going to take a long time to play out & is still very risky for us all. I'd feel much happier if there was a more widespread understanding of what has happened. Thus viewing this issue thru the prism of red v blue is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, f*cking stupid. I've tried, in the past, to take care not to criticise Bush, as I dont see him as responsible, but his disembling over the 'staying the course' is typical of him, A,merican politics &, (sort of), this board. But its all irrelevant anyway unless one wants to be endlessly 'stuck on stupid' | ||||
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10-24-2006, 12:50 PM
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| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by avsp No I never saw that. That's hilarious.
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10-24-2006, 12:53 PM
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| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by DosEquis Agreed. Democrats and anyone else who suggested anything other than "Stay the course" were rooting for the terrorists to win. Why do we hate america?! That sorta crap. .Now the administration is turning around and saying that they might re-think strategy. So they are doing the very thing that everyone on the right blasted us for wanting to do.
We remember during the campaign the rampant accusations of flip flopping. ANyone who changed thier opinion on something was a flip flopper. Campaigns made up flip flops with Kerry's picture on them. Now what is Bush doing? Well he is doing something that those of us on the left have been shouting about for years. am I glad that they are rethinking things? Yes! But it's way long over due and I don't respect the fact that they never admit mistakes, they simply deny that they ever said stay the couse as if we somehow forgot. | ||||
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10-24-2006, 01:35 PM
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| Lurker  Conservative NH
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 when did the bush admin say they would never try new strategies?
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10-24-2006, 01:38 PM
| #9 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by phreak
 "Stay the Course" was practically thier campaign slogan in 2004. We were always told we had a choice between "stay the course" and "cut and run". Were you in the country during the elections? | ||||
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10-24-2006, 01:55 PM
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| R-CH2-CH3  Republican
| I was under the impression that 'stay the course' was the main goal of turning over security completely to the Iraqis on the administration's and military's terms... and not on the terms of opposing politicians and repeat the political pussification that occurred in Vietnam. | ||||
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10-24-2006, 02:00 PM
| #11 | ||||
| R-CH2-CH3 Republican
| I think the war opposition has been so used to not seeing an end in sight that when the strategy actually shows a potential end, they think it's a flip flop from the norm.  | ||||
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10-24-2006, 02:26 PM
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| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by ethyl which strategy... "stay the course" or the one being discussed now?
Stay the course was official policy until about a month or so ago. The Ken Mehlman went on meet the press and said "it is not stay the course, it is more of, adapt to win" and then illustrated his point by noting american soldiers moving to hostile areas as they come up. "Adapt to win" as descibed by Mehlman was a strategy that John McCain later called "wack a mole". Now we have Rumsfeld the other day saying "we are looking at having a set of goals that need to be achieved for the Iraqi people and governmnet" and some other time table shit. The same kind of plan they were shitting on for more than a year by saying it only helps the enemy. This strategy to date, has shown very little positive things. It has shown a government elected, but a government with no teeth. It has seen no decrease in violance, it has seen no oil revenue for reconstruction, it has seen no "welcome liberators" signs, it has seen 9 billion just go missing because of "third world accounting", it has trained people who are police by day and insurgents by night, it has seen 200,000 of them stand up but we haven't stood down like they said, it has cost nearly 300 billion instead of the 80 billion estimate. I could go on but you get the point. Please show me the potential in sight with that strategy. MSPaint it for me because I obviously don't get it and 30% of americans still do. | ||||
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10-24-2006, 02:34 PM
| #13 | ||||
| minor irritant &/or non-entity News Moderator Contrarian Birmingham, UK
| plus a massive 'brain drain' by the Iraqi middle class | ||||
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10-24-2006, 08:57 PM
| #14 | ||||
| America Fuck Yea Election Moderator  Republican In Name Only
| listening to your generals ftmfw | ||||
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10-25-2006, 07:46 AM
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| Lurker Conservative NH
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9l are you going to answer my question or just post useless babbling?
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10-25-2006, 10:43 AM
| #16 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by phreak I did. Perhaps I said it in a way that confused you. I will try and say it in a way that will be easier for you to understand.
"Stay the Course" means literally to maintain the present heading even under difficult conditions. This also implies that you should not change course, but that much should be obvious. When asked what his opinion was on the failing Iraqi conflict, Bush's answer was always. " We have to stay the course". I don't know what that means to you, but to most people in the country it meant that we will keep on doing exactly what we are doing, no matter what. So it means that we won't withdraw, we won't set a time table, we won't consider letting Iraq transform into a confederacy, we won't try and break Iraq up into 3 countries. etc. We will continue to fight insurgents in the streets and keep training iraqi security forces until such time when they can take over for themselves. That is what "stay the course" means, and it has been the official policy of the administration for several years now. In light of current events in Iraq and the current situation there, the policy of "Stay the course" is no longer viable, and the administration has backed away from it. They will no longer even use those words. Bush drops 'stay the course' slogan as political mood sours | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited
I hope that was clear enough for you. If you want to argue semantics about what stay the course actually means and what actually constitutes changing course then you can go somewhere else. This is simple. During the campaign in 2004, anyone who suggested rethinking the Iraq war was either a defeatist or they were simply wrong, and that the way to win the war in Iraq was to stay the course. Now, he has stopped saying stay the course. It's simple for most people to see that the President is doing now what he once derided, and for someone who made a big issue out of so called "flip-flopping", it's a bit ironic. | ||||
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10-25-2006, 11:03 AM
| #17 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| I think we should let those in charge of the war handle the war strategies. Anyone else criticizing or making suggestings about how it should be handled should stfu, cause they have no idea what they are talking about. | ||||
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10-25-2006, 11:14 AM
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| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz
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10-25-2006, 11:20 AM
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| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Thats all fine and dandy but our government is not one person. There are many voices who all have a say in how we do things. Congress has the power of the purse. And constitutionally they are the only ones who can declare war. These are the people making suggestions. should they STFU?
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10-25-2006, 11:26 AM
| #20 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 These are the people with the 'power of the purse' as you say. Yet they all voted for the war, they all continue to support it financially, and then they go and say we should pull out? Hmmm...
No, the ones I'm talking about that should STFU are the ones that have nothing at all to do with the war or government. Even some on LL. | ||||
