State of the Union

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by JaJae

When I saw it live I missed the people applauding, haven't gone back to rewatch it, but I did notice Alito emotionally/verbally respond. That was out of line. I also noticed a few judges smile real big. The Supreme Court is not supposed to respond to anything. They're supposed to sit there and shutup.

I thought I saw someone else next to them on the left side of the screen applauding. I guess it could have been someone sitting next to the judges. I'll have to rewatch it.

Originally Posted by JaJae

I'm not too sure how I feel about Obama calling them out. I'm glad we have a president who's willing to do it, but once again he didn't reference the law. He just gave his opinion of the negative consequences. The Supreme Court is not supposed to rule based on personal opinion of consequences. They are supposed to rule based on the law.

Perhaps Obama is hinting at changing our bill of rights...

[DosEquis]

I thought it was a good speech. I am not all that concerned about Alito's funny faces, how proper it was or whatever.

As far as the partisanship ..republicans have been a huge road block for reform instead of helping, providing real actual ideas, nor showing any real willingness to compromise. Calling them out on it is fine by me. And BTW he also called out democrats too from time to time.

Overall I thought he did really well. Acknowledged shortcomings, made criticisms, remained positive, and hopefully this government can move forward and actually do something.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I'm not too sure how I feel about Obama calling them out. I'm glad we have a president who's willing to do it, but once again he didn't reference the law. He just gave his opinion of the negative consequences. The Supreme Court is not supposed to rule based on personal opinion of consequences. They are supposed to rule based on the law.

While I agree with you, it's not reality. There are liberal judges and conservative judges, and all of them base their decisions with their personal views influencing their decisions. That's what they do...take information in..process it through their liberal or conservative filters...and vote yes or no.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

While I agree with you, it's not reality. There are liberal judges and conservative judges, and all of them base their decisions with their personal views influencing their decisions. That's what they do...take information in..process it through their liberal or conservative filters...and vote yes or no.

and I fucking hate it

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I thought it was a good speech. I am not all that concerned about Alito's funny faces, how proper it was or whatever.

As far as the partisanship ..republicans have been a huge road block for reform instead of helping, providing real actual ideas, nor showing any real willingness to compromise. Calling them out on it is fine by me. And BTW he also called out democrats too from time to time.

Overall I thought he did really well. Acknowledged shortcomings, made criticisms, remained positive, and hopefully this government can move forward and actually do something.

I thought it was the typical Obama speech, meaning there was way too many strawman attacks to build himself up. It really annoys mean that such an educated man uses some elementary tactics.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

and I fucking hate it

The problem is... their job is to interpret. They process it based on personal views, experience, precedence, etc. If they are of conservative nature then they tend to rule that direction. It's more human nature than anything else.

Its like when the 2nd was written about the right to bear arms. Back then arms were flint locks and cannons. Today arms range from a bb gun, to hand guns, rifles, automatic, semi-automatic, gatlin guns, .22 to .50 cal bullets, rpg's, stinger missiles, howitzers, etc. We are all familiar with that debate on interpretation. Some say "there is nothing to interpret....its arms...we have a right to them" and others say "it was written when arms were single shot muzzle loaders".

Just one of those things.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I thought it was a good speech. I am not all that concerned about Alito's funny faces, how proper it was or whatever.

As far as the partisanship ..republicans have been a huge road block for reform instead of helping, providing real actual ideas, nor showing any real willingness to compromise. Calling them out on it is fine by me. And BTW he also called out democrats too from time to time.

Until now, the Obama administration hasn't much cared what republicans had to say. For the simple fact that they had super majorities in both houses of congress. Now they actual have to go to the other side. It should be interesting to see how they proceed now that republican votes will be needed to do anything.

That's promising to me though as Clinton did some of his best work with a republican congress. Though Obama is not the centrist democrat that Clinton was. Well, Clinton was more centrist.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Swift

Until now, the Obama administration hasn't much cared what republicans had to say. For the simple fact that they had super majorities in both houses of congress. Now they actual have to go to the other side. It should be interesting to see how they proceed now that republican votes will be needed to do anything.

That's promising to me though as Clinton did some of his best work with a republican congress. Though Obama is not the centrist democrat that Clinton was. Well, Clinton was more centrist.

Frankly I wouldn't care what they have to say either. Every time something comes out by him it is painted as destroying america.

The Q/A he just had with republicans was awesome. They got to jab at each other but I think it was really productive. But when either side does something like.....

...he said some in the audience have attended ribbon-cutting ceremonies for projects funded by the stimulus package they voted against.

Its just the name of the game these days i guess.

If you paint your political opponent as the 2nd coming of Stalin, that the government is going to take over your life, it makes it really difficult to work together and then vote with him. You just made the guy out to be communist america destroyer and now you are siding with him? Republican campaigns are creating an environment where its pretty much impossible for them to work with Obama and democrats, because of what they are portraying out there.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Frankly I wouldn't care what they have to say either. Every time something comes out by him it is painted as destroying america.

The Q/A he just had with republicans was awesome. They got to jab at each other but I think it was really productive. But when either side does something like.....

...he said some in the audience have attended ribbon-cutting ceremonies for projects funded by the stimulus package they voted against.

Its just the name of the game these days i guess.

yep

If you paint your political opponent as the 2nd coming of Stalin, that the government is going to take over your life, it makes it really difficult to work together and then vote with him. You just made the guy out to be communist america destroyer and now you are siding with him? Republican campaigns are creating an environment where its pretty much impossible for them to work with Obama and democrats, because of what they are portraying out there.

What if you do the opposite? Paint him as the second coming of Christ and that he's going to do miraculous things to make America better for everyone. Fix healthcare without costing you anything, get clean energy without raising utility bills and lower the levels of the oceans?

I'm not saying there aren't people out there sayng Obama is a communist or a socialist, but there are just as many that think he can do no wrong.

BTW, the democrats had the majority to pass whatever they wanted in both houses. They didn't need the republicans at all. So it came down to the quality of the policies that Obama wanted. Clearly, they weren't good enough for some democrats that simply wouldn't agree to them. So that can't be blamed on the republicans.

[The Esteemed Gentleman]

Originally Posted by Swift

... there are just as many that think he can do no wrong....

Some of them post here in LL if I am not mistaken.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Swift

yep



What if you do the opposite? Paint him as the second coming of Christ and that he's going to do miraculous things to make America better for everyone. Fix healthcare without costing you anything, get clean energy without raising utility bills and lower the levels of the oceans?

I'm not saying there aren't people out there sayng Obama is a communist or a socialist, but there are just as many that think he can do no wrong.

BTW, the democrats had the majority to pass whatever they wanted in both houses. They didn't need the republicans at all. So it came down to the quality of the policies that Obama wanted. Clearly, they weren't good enough for some democrats that simply wouldn't agree to them. So that can't be blamed on the republicans.

Ben Nelson ..democrat... from nebraska can't vote with Obama without losing his senate seat. There are a decent number of democrats in that position...from conservative states.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by The Esteemed Gentleman

Some of them post here in LL if I am not mistaken.

I can name more things he's done wrong than you can name things he's done right. Just FYI.

When nobody does anything but bash him in here, I have no issue defending him.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Ben Nelson ..democrat... from nebraska can't vote with Obama without losing his senate seat. There are a decent number of democrats in that position...from conservative states.

But he did eventually capitulate, didn't he? All the dems in the Senate did. So it wasn't a republican issue of "blockage" but a matter of Obama's unpopular policies, as you said.

My question again is this, if Obama's policies are so good for america, why do members of his party need major bribes to go along with them?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Swift

But he did eventually capitulate, didn't he? All the dems in the Senate did. So it wasn't a republican issue of "blockage" but a matter of Obama's unpopular policies, as you said.

My question again is this, if Obama's policies are so good for america, why do members of his party need major bribes to go along with them?

And why do Republicans hate the stimulus and bash it unflinchingly while using it's money? Washington is all about money...let's not pretend it's different. Do I like it? No...but that's how it is.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Swift

My question again is this, if Obama's policies are so good for america, why do members of his party need major bribes to go along with them?

Because just about every politician won't do shit unless they are getting some kind of kick-back.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And why do Republicans hate the stimulus and bash it unflinchingly while using it's money? Washington is all about money...let's not pretend it's different. Do I like it? No...but that's how it is.

They like to pose for pictures with oversized checks and take the credit, then crap all over the people who gave it to them.

[CuriousMoon]

Using his Executive Powers he plans to issue is own edicts upon the American populace regardless of what Congress has voted against. President Obama plans to issue Executive Orders to mandate his wishes and wills upon the citizenry. Also, not liking the decsions of the Supreme Court, he urges Congress to put forth legislation that will enable continuation of the campaigning status quo. The President is drunk with power. He stand upon 24 States of National Emergency of which he continued 23 and included another the H1N1 Influenza Pandemic Emergency.

America continues its difference to the world with its unequivical view of the globe and smashing public will in all corners of the Earth. No people may gather and protest their views of poverty and oppression, unless they match the views put forth by U.S. Foreign Policy. If they dare, the dogs of war shall be upon them in the form of Xe, NATO, U.S. Armed Forces, and the CIA. It shows the rather hippocritcal nature of a bankrupt country with unrest beyond history's recollection growing in her belly to step forward on foreign lands and attempt to stabalize social structure, infrastructure, and financial structure with monies taken from children unborn, dreams unmet, and mouths unfed.

A good long look in the mirror should, under normal conditions, be enough to show that a light of reason needs to shine on America herself and in her own closets of the Treasury, of the Federal Reserve Bank, of the Political Lobby, of the Corporatism, and every Executive Branch drunk with delegated authority yet, un wanted by her own people. A closet so stuffed with I.O.U.'s that teleprompters can't keep up with the demand of schemes and back room deals that may be launched one more time to lull a country back to sleep. A country that has awakened to see her founding documents placed upon a shelf and the call number lost with some librarian on her way to audition for an opportunity to be the next American Idol.

A speech which carries truth and vision delivered with integrity in a manner of statesmanship worthy of and to the status of a President of the United States, I did not hear. What I heard was 3 more years of the same. A Corporate-Wall Street-Big Bank guided agenda with no attention paid to the sweat, blood, and tears streaming down the face of lady liberty.

[stolz25]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And why do Republicans hate the stimulus and bash it unflinchingly while using it's money?

Because the alternative is involuntarily donating your money to others while getting none of it back?

[Salty Dog]

Originally Posted by Swift

My question again is this, if Obama's policies are so good for america, why do members of his party need major bribes to go along with them?

Like I've said from Day 1, Obama is despised by the elder bleeding hearts because he virtually came out of no where and now is CiC. It's good PR in public but behind closed doors it's a completely different game. He doesn't sit well with alot of these multi-term Congressman, especially when Obama wants things his way and no theirs.

The other thing is balls. Obama hasn't shown anyone from the left or the right that he has a pair thus far. That's why his own party has issues with him.

[The Esteemed Gentleman]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I can name more things he's done wrong than you can name things he's done right. Just FYI.

1. How do you know I was talking about you specifically? Your response that I must have been talking about you only validates and affirms others' insistence that you do just that.

2. How do you know you can "name more things he's done wrong than [i] can name things he's done right"? Putting aside the reality that your statement is conjecture, are you actually implying you know more about Obama's record than other posters (specifically, me) here in the forum?

3. Shall we bow down to your ego now, or later?