Active duty troops speaking out about war

[Donkey®]

KRT Wire | 10/24/2006 | Some active-duty troops voice their dissent from U.S. policy in Iraq

Originally Posted by article

Some active-duty troops voice their dissent from U.S. policy in Iraq

By Drew Brown

McClatchy Newspapers

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - Liam Madden opposed the war in Iraq even before he deployed with his Marine unit in late 2004. But he came home convinced more than ever that the war was wrong.

"The more informed I got, the more I opposed the war," said Madden, 22, a Marine Corps sergeant in Quantico, Va. "The more people who died there, the longer we stayed there, the more I opposed the war. The more I know, the easier it is to support withdrawal."

Madden is one of about 118 members of the U.S. military who plan to petition Congress asking that U.S. forces be withdrawn from Iraq and brought home, said attorney J.E. McNeil. McNeil is advising the grassroots group of active-duty service members, who organized the petition drive through a Web site (www.appealforredress.org).

In a rare display of public dissent, Madden and another serviceman plan to go public Wednesday with their disapproval. Members of the military are more limited than civilians are in how they can express dissent.

Although a number of troops, including at least one officer, have been brought up on charges for refusing to serve in Iraq, and dozens more have deserted, this is the first time that serving members of the U.S. military have publicly petitioned Congress to end the war. The action comes less than two weeks before the Nov. 7 elections, in which the Iraq war is a major issue.

President Bush says he plans no major changes in strategy, and top U.S. officials in Baghdad said Tuesday that they are sticking to plans to hand over most security responsibilities to the Iraqi government over the next 12 to 18 months.

Organizers are planning to deliver the petitions to Congress by the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday in January.

"The long-term goal is to end the occupation of Iraq," Madden said. "The short-term goal is to spread the word that service members who feel like we do have a tool to have their voice heard, and it's their duty as a citizen of a democratic society to participate in democracy."

The message that Madden and other troops are sending to their congressional representatives is brief and to the point.

"As a patriotic American proud to serve the nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq," it says. "Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth the price. It is time for U.S. troops to come home."

The grassroots movement of active-duty service members is based in Norfolk, Va., and is sponsored by several anti-war groups, including Iraq Veterans Against the War, Veterans for Peace, and Military Families Speak Out. Service members can submit their appeals online, giving their names, duty status and service branches.

McNeil, the attorney, said troops who speak out against the war are exercising their First Amendment right to free speech.

Under military regulations, troops are free to speak their minds as long as they're not on duty, not in uniform and aren't saying anything that's disrespectful to their chain of command or the president, she said.

"They've got to be clear that they are speaking for themselves and not the military," said McNeil, the executive director of the Center on Conscience and War, based in Washington. The organization was formed by Quakers and other church groups in 1940 to protect the rights of conscientious objectors.

The Military Whistleblower Protection Act of 1995 allows servicemen and women to communicate grievances directly to Congress without the threat of penalty or reprisal.

Eugene Fidell, a Washington attorney and president of the National Institute for Military Justice, said the service members are within their rights to speak out against the war to members of Congress. However, he said they must be careful about what they say in public and the circumstances under which they say it.

Eric A. Seitz, a Honolulu attorney who has handled military cases for more than 40 years, said: "The kinds of resistance and opposition and outrage that military people are now beginning to express has been simmering for quite a while. But it's about to just burst out in huge waves."

Seitz is representing Lt. Ehren Watada, an Army lieutenant at Fort Lewis, Wash., who's being prosecuted for refusing to serve in Iraq.

If dissent continues to build, more soldiers might refuse to fight, Seitz said.

Pentagon officials might "think they can continue to prosecute a war, but when the troops stop fighting, that's it, they're out of luck," he said.

Not sure how I view this one. It puts an end to the whole "the troops support the war" bullshit the right spews...but what does this do to troop morale? I mean they are still there and aren't leaving until they are pulled out by the administration.

[phreak]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

KRT Wire | 10/24/2006 | Some active-duty troops voice



Not sure how I view this one. It puts an end to the whole "the troops support the war" bullshit the right spews...but what does this do to troop morale? I mean they are still there and aren't leaving until they are pulled out by the administration.

so because a small percentage of soldiers oppose the war it puts an end to the notion that "the troops support the war"?

[ballz2wallz]

Yeah, for the past week they've been searching throughout the whole military trying to find active-duty members to go against the war. Looks like they've been successful.

But it's really no surprise they find such a small number, is it? During the whole war, there have always been dissenters in the military; those that refuse to go back after they've come home, those that refuse to show up for duty, etc. We've known about those all along, why is it suddenly proof that the military doesn't support the war?

[kinggovernor]

I would enjoy telling them all to stfu and that no one cares what they think

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by phreak

so because a small percentage of soldiers oppose the war it puts an end to the notion that "the troops support the war"?

less than one percent

118 divided by 1,400,000 = .008% roughly

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

less than one percent

118 divided by 1,400,000 = .008% roughly

That is speculation in a pretty big way there.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

That is speculation in a pretty big way there.

One could imagine that, were there many more who avidly disagreed the war, would voluntairly come out and join this group with all the media attention it's getting. There is safety in numbers.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

One could imagine that, were there many more who avidly disagreed the war, would voluntairly come out and join this group with all the media attention it's getting. There is safety in numbers.

doubtful. Especaily if they are a minority opnion in thier group. They don't want to wake up to a sock party, ala full metal jacket.

[DosEquis]

As long as we are speculating.... my "gut" tells me something along the lines of...

70%+ support the conflict
30%- do not support

90% would rather be at home
10% would rather be in Iraq

just an impression i get from 2 cousins and 2 uncles who serve

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

As long as we are speculating.... my "gut" tells me something along the lines of...

70%+ support the conflict
30%- do not support

90% would rather be at home
10% would rather be in Iraq

just an impression i get from 2 cousins and 2 uncles who serve

What soldier prefers to be deployed? I never did. That doesn't mean I didn't support why i was deployed it just means i would rather be home.

[motivez]

I really think it's dangerous to get the military involved in the political aspects of the Iraqi discussion.. not that I disagree with it in every case, but it's still dangerous IMO.

[SICKGUY]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Yeah, for the past week they've been searching throughout the whole military trying to find active-duty members to go against the war. Looks like they've been successful.

But it's really no surprise they find such a small number, is it? During the whole war, there have always been dissenters in the military; those that refuse to go back after they've come home, those that refuse to show up for duty, etc. We've known about those all along, why is it suddenly proof that the military doesn't support the war?

you are not going to find many active duty soldiers that are going to be willing to voice their opposition to the war. especially those currently in iraq.

thats like sending an email to everyone in your company about how much you hate your job, including your boss.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

I really think it's dangerous to get the military involved in the political aspects of the Iraqi discussion.. not that I disagree with it in every case, but it's still dangerous IMO.

What's dangerous is letting politics interfere with the Iraq transfer of power. Whats dangerous is politicizing the war.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

What's dangerous is letting politics interfere with the Iraq transfer of power. Whats dangerous is politicizing the war.

No, that's an entirely different aspect.

The military becoming involved in politics presents a whole new set of dangers to a free society.

On the other hand, politicizing the war is something that should be done.

It should be a political issue because that's the only way we can hold leaders accountable if they take the country to war and then mess it up, like has unfortunately happened with the Bush Administration and their handling of Iraq.

The people can't sit by and be afraid to speak out about war, because there's few issues as important as war.