Crossover Topic: Can A Muslim Be an American?

Diamond Cross · 10-28-2006, 05:18 AM

An excerp from the article:

<H1 class=titre>Can a Practicing Muslim be an American?

Stephen Goldstein
Thursday 12 October 2006, by Alain

I have been accused of hating Muslims; I declare I do not hate anyone, there are things that a Muslim does that I hate, but I do not hate any individual. I have a friend who was raised as a Muslim but accepted Christ as his savior when he moved out on his own. We have had many discussions about his former religious beliefs and how those beliefs affected his mental and emotional makeup. Recently we discussed the lack of Muslims in this country that do not speak out against the "radical" Muslims and the havoc they have wrought throughout the world. I even asked, "I can understand their silence if they still have ties to their home countries but what of those who are American citizens?" His answer sent shivers up my spine.

Tony (not his real name) explained to me that any Muslim that still practices his religion, no matter what he says, could be a good American citizen. Even if they took the oath to become a citizen, have lived here for over 30 years, no matter what they say or do, they will never be “true” American citizens. The reason? Islam itself. Consider the following; a true believer in Islam and the teachings of the Koran cannot be an American citizen on theological grounds because as an adherent to the faith, they cannot swear any allegiance because the adherent has sworn an oath to Allah. Any other oath given voluntarily or forced has no value because of this sworn allegiance to their god Allah.

Theologically a Muslim cannot be a true American because the religion they believe in denies any other name for God or the worship of any other god. This non-acceptance of other religions flies in the face of the Bill of Rights and the Koran has validity; the Bill of Rights does not. The Koran declares that it is a sin to accept any other religion as valid accept as Islam (Sura 2:256).

</H1>You can read the full article here:

Can a Practicing Muslim be an American? - Alain's Newsletter

imind · 10-28-2006, 11:31 AM

The reason? Islam itself. Consider the following; a true believer in Islam and the teachings of the Koran cannot be an American citizen on theological grounds because as an adherent to the faith, they cannot swear any allegiance because the adherent has sworn an oath to Allah. Any other oath given voluntarily or forced has no value because of this sworn allegiance to their god Allah.

christianity has similar restrictions against taking oaths.

***enter cleverest to provide this scripture.***

avsp · 10-28-2006, 11:56 AM

Tony (not his real name) explained to me that any Muslim that still practices his religion, no matter what he says, could be a good American citizen.

i'd agree with that, ..., although i suspect theres a typo in there somewhere.

Is it only possible to be a good American if one takes the oath of alliegence?

Also not all muslims believe as the article later states, though many do.

My bullsh*t detector went off in the first 2 lines, ..., but thats just my bias

IminWonderland · 10-28-2006, 02:09 PM

Well, can it be said that anyone can not take allegience to the Oath of America, would that make anyone less American?

ballz2wallz · 10-28-2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by imind

christianity has similar restrictions against taking oaths.

***enter cleverest to provide this scripture.***

There are?

motivez · 10-28-2006, 09:00 PM

I think they can, and I think we have plenty of fine Islamic citizens in this country.

I think you can pick out any part of a religion you want and say it would prevent someone from doing this or that, and while I personally believe people who are practicing Muslim's are some of the last truly devout people in the country (The Amish perhaps being the other) when it comes to actually following the teachings of their religion, I don't believe it prevents them from being a real American.

I don't believe it's "unamerican" to place ones religion ahead of a nation. If I believed in a religion and that my eternal soul was at risk, I'd be placing it ahead of something like an earthly country as well, but that doesn't mean I'd be actively working against it or some such.

lew · 10-28-2006, 10:15 PM

If you're born in America, you don't have to take any oaths to America. So, as long as you're born here, you're fine.

IminWonderland · 10-28-2006, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by lew

If you're born in America, you don't have to take any oaths to America. So, as long as you're born here, you're fine.

What about the pledge of Alligience?

cleverest · 10-29-2006, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by imind

christianity has similar restrictions against taking oaths.

***enter cleverest to provide this scripture.***

Cleverest 1:1 Yo, don't be making any oaths sucka's, you hear?

that one?

But no, seriously....a person bound to oaths and swearing them, is bound to pride and their actions and words reveal their vanity spritually....hence scriptures admonition to stay humble, meek and fearful, not the irrational fear of christendom 101's pagan hell, but fear as in AWE and RESPECT of God....knowing that you cannot change the fate of the universe with your oaths, but God can and certainly does change things in spite of them.

Kytro · 10-30-2006, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

What about the pledge of Alligience?

It's not a legal requirement to say it.

imind · 10-30-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

There are?

James 5:12
12Above all, my brothers, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.

matthew 6 33:37
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Dumpy Dooby · 10-31-2006, 11:46 PM

Enter No True Scotsman!!

banzini · 07-21-2007, 12:20 AM

that phrase "true american" really irks me.

jimeigh · 07-23-2007, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

What about the pledge of Alligience?

yea.... what about it?

Dumpy Dooby · 07-24-2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by banzini

that phrase "true american" really irks me.

No true American would be irked by that.

redwards · 07-28-2007, 11:54 PM

that has to be the dumbest question I've heard this week.

Rouger2 · 07-29-2007, 05:52 PM

I don't know that accepting only one religion has to do with not being american enough. I think that most religions teach that they are the one and only and some say if your not of that religion you go to hell, and I am speaking of Christian religions.

garbagemanlb · 08-03-2007, 01:30 PM

I for one am shocked that the author's last name is Goldstein. Simply stunned.