What Do You See As The Future For America?

Diamond Cross · 10-29-2006, 06:56 PM

Personally, I do see an eventual end to the terrorists that plague this planet, but I am uncertain that if Americans can come together as a people if we do not have a common goal, such as say facing an enemy from outer space. I feel that it's possible that thanks to partisan politics mostly Americans have become too polarized to come together as a people in an era of peace and prosperity. After all, look at the modern day America.

We may bein a war now, but the war is really too distant to be truly personal to all Americans as a whole. And it is more of a political nature than actual war, such as WW II. Yes there was propoganda, but nobody was confused as to what WW II was about. We were fighting for our very lives against Facism who would seek to enslave us. The death of millions of Jews proved that to be true.

Not so true with the IRaq war. The war has been very politicised and is divided along partisan lines. In fact, the only reason why we're there is because President Bush went to the UJnited Nations first to put pressure on American leaders to support him. However, now it is divided, the majority of Republicans support him while the majority of Democrats do not.

And the argument goes on about whether the war is actually accomplishing anything good, but it is the political processes that confuse the issue. The partisan politics only serve to suit their own interests, and will say or do anything to garner support for their view.

This is how polarised Americans have become in one issue. Another example of polarization is that over Abortion. There are some issues that may never be solved and keeps Americans at each other's throats.

But is it possible that Americans can become united as one in a peaceful situation?

We did briefly after 911, so there may be hope for us yet.

kinggovernor · 10-29-2006, 07:07 PM

no America will not become united in a peaceful situation

Kytro · 10-30-2006, 03:14 AM

While it is impossible to predict with any accuracy the future, it will depend entirely of how the world engages with other nations.

Isolationism is completely impractical in the long term and those that choose to work together for common goals will prosper more so than those that don't

Nonphixion · 10-30-2006, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Personally, I do see an eventual end to the terrorists that plague this planet, but I am uncertain that if Americans can come together as a people if we do not have a common goal, such as say facing an enemy from outer space. I feel that it's possible that thanks to partisan politics mostly Americans have become too polarized to come together as a people in an era of peace and prosperity. After all, look at the modern day America.

We may bein a war now, but the war is really too distant to be truly personal to all Americans as a whole. And it is more of a political nature than actual war, such as WW II. Yes there was propoganda, but nobody was confused as to what WW II was about. We were fighting for our very lives against Facism who would seek to enslave us. The death of millions of Jews proved that to be true.

Not so true with the IRaq war. The war has been very politicised and is divided along partisan lines. In fact, the only reason why we're there is because President Bush went to the UJnited Nations first to put pressure on American leaders to support him. However, now it is divided, the majority of Republicans support him while the majority of Democrats do not.

And the argument goes on about whether the war is actually accomplishing anything good, but it is the political processes that confuse the issue. The partisan politics only serve to suit their own interests, and will say or do anything to garner support for their view.

This is how polarised Americans have become in one issue. Another example of polarization is that over Abortion. There are some issues that may never be solved and keeps Americans at each other's throats.

But is it possible that Americans can become united as one in a peaceful situation?

We did briefly after 911, so there may be hope for us yet.

If you're talking about an end to "The War on Terror" you are mistaken, terror is a method, terror is a tactic ... it is not an enemy. What he have here is a blank check, and a false justification to wage war for the rest of eternity.

And you're disillusioned on a certain past -- the cold war saw the social tide of fear that global communism was a threat trying to take over our lives and our classrooms, those "who would seek to enslave us" as you reference it. Your historic villian Adolf Hitler in the correct context; is one who only believed that since pre-historic times Jews muddied the racial waters destroying a "magical" aryan divine racial group. Hitler did not want to enslave anyone, he simply strived to restore what he beleived to be a divine race.

avsp · 10-30-2006, 07:21 AM

Terrorism as a tactic exists because of the impossibility of matching your enemies 'conventional' military strength.

It is probably impossible to effectively militarily counter terrorism without devolving combat to a one-on-one level, ..., such as hybrid radio-controlled killer insects or the like.

Moving on

The increasingly materialistic & indivdualistic nature of western society means that there is ever less indentification with the group & an ever less sense of the 'common good'.

The bonds that tie a society together are loosening in the democratic world. Its increasingly secular, what religions there are are schisming. You indentify the democratic process itself as failing & possibly even driving the process to a degree, I tend to agree. Everything is fragmenting & atomising as we become ever more selfish.

You are right, under 'outside pressure' unification occurs.

Apart from war such things as Global warming or oil shortages may provide such a 'threat'. Equally though, everyone may just 'grab what they can & run for the hills'. One sees such a reaction with the emergence of 'survivalism' etc

All this is generalisations & probably a bit trite & not a comprehensive understanding of whats happening

Aside

We may bein a war now, but the war is really too distant to be truly personal to all Americans as a whole.

BTW this is a good example, IMO, of a high degree of 'individualism'. Why cant/dont people personally identify with the suffering in Iraq? Is it purely because to do so is too 'upsetting'? Or do they simply not care & are just glad its not them?

thatguyoverthere · 10-30-2006, 07:40 AM

Good thread. I especially appreciate the insight from the non-Americans. America is a bit insulated as you know, and it may help us to get another perspective now and then.

I think people profit too much by having Americans divided. There's a whole right wing talk show industry here that does nothing but demonize the left wing, hour after hour, year after year. It's also in the politicians interests for us to disagree with each other and to be at each others throats. Political rancor in the media has turned into big business.

WickedLou9 · 10-30-2006, 09:17 AM

I see the rise of a new global power. China. They will most likely take over our position as THE global super power. Once China reaches the industrial and technological level that the US has, and it's not all that far off, the US will no longer be able to set policy globally. We will no longer be able to do whatever is best for us without first considering China. The step that China must take now before it can really reach that level is to elevate it's massive population above poverty. Its happening already but they still have a long way to go.

I don't see terrorism as a big deal. Terrorism kills far less people then even the flu on any given year. It's a hot button issue now but it will pass. There have been anti-government groups carrying out attacks against civilian populations for hundreds of years. It's not new and it will never go away. Perhaps with the rise of China, some focus will be taken off of the US.

I also see global warming having a fairly big economic effect in the next 50-75 years, although exactly what effect it will have is hard to predict. I do think that it will be negative over-all and it will strain US and global resources.

Vietvet · 10-30-2006, 10:22 AM

You bring up an interesting question, and one which is very difficult to answer. I can, however, offer a "what might have been" scenario. Maybe it will happen someday, in a different time in the distant future. Suppose we had had a president at the time the WTC was attacked, who was a true "uniter", as so many of us had hoped Bush would turn out to be? Here's my take on what "might have been.."

We would have gone into Afghanistan, as we did, and would have gone after bin Laden. Instead of trusting the Afghanis to capture him, we would have gone into Tora Bora ourselves and captured him. He would have been tried and executed. Iraq would still be as it was-with Saddam Hussein in a box, and Iran "checkmated" by Iraq, just as it had been for years.

Our president would have reached out to the world community, which grieved along with Americans after 911. We would have worked with our allies and created a real worldwide coillition to track down terrorists wherever they were, with a renewed vigor never seen before. We would have treated our partners in the world community with respect and would have worked WITH them in a cooperative effort to crush terrorism through relentless pursuit, rather than say, as Bush did, "My way or the highway."Instead of tarnishing the image of this once-great country throughout the world, our president would be reaching out and setting an example. An example of strength and intelligence tempered with humility rather than blind stupid arrogance and stubbornness.

On the home front, campaign finance reform would ensure that big-money corporate interests such as defense contractors, drug companies, and big oil lobbyists would have radically reduced influence on our government. Instead, only individuals could contribute limited funds to political organizations. Social issues such as abortion and gay marriage would be left to local communities and not be used as wedge issues. Instead, real "bread and butter" issues such as health care reform and outscourcing of jobs, as well as immigration reform and border security would be addressed in a bi-partisan fashion, and solved.With no corporate money or influence involved.(I know, that's hard to imagine,but it could, with the right leadership).Term limits would become a reality, not just empty pledges.

New jobs would be created, especially in the fields of alternative energy research and development. The minmum wage would be raised to a living wage.

Cultural diversity would be celebrated, and cultural understanding would be enhanced through education. The almighty dollar would decrease in importance, and social awareness and empathy would increase. America would have finally awakened from a long, cold hibernation.

Hell, I can dream can't I?

KatKanPlay · 10-30-2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Vietvet

You bring up an interesting question, and one which is very difficult to answer. I can, however, offer a "what might have been" scenario. Maybe it will happen someday, in a different time in the distant future. Suppose we had had a president at the time the WTC was attacked, who was a true "uniter", as so many of us had hoped Bush would turn out to be? Here's my take on what "might have been.."

We would have gone into Afghanistan, as we did, and would have gone after bin Laden. Instead of trusting the Afghanis to capture him, we would have gone into Tora Bora ourselves and captured him. He would have been tried and executed. Iraq would still be as it was-with Saddam Hussein in a box, and Iran "checkmated" by Iraq, just as it had been for years.

Our president would have reached out to the world community, which grieved along with Americans after 911. We would have worked with our allies and created a real worldwide coillition to track down terrorists wherever they were, with a renewed vigor never seen before. We would have treated our partners in the world community with respect and would have worked WITH them in a cooperative effort to crush terrorism through relentless pursuit, rather than say, as Bush did, "My way or the highway."Instead of tarnishing the image of this once-great country throughout the world, our president would be reaching out and setting an example. An example of strength and intelligence tempered with humility rather than blind stupid arrogance and stubbornness.

On the home front, campaign finance reform would ensure that big-money corporate interests such as defense contractors, drug companies, and big oil lobbyists would have radically reduced influence on our government. Instead, only individuals could contribute limited funds to political organizations. Social issues such as abortion and gay marriage would be left to local communities and not be used as wedge issues. Instead, real "bread and butter" issues such as health care reform and outscourcing of jobs, as well as immigration reform and border security would be addressed in a bi-partisan fashion, and solved.With no corporate money or influence involved.(I know, that's hard to imagine,but it could, with the right leadership).Term limits would become a reality, not just empty pledges.

New jobs would be created, especially in the fields of alternative energy research and development. The minmum wage would be raised to a living wage.

Cultural diversity would be celebrated, and cultural understanding would be enhanced through education. The almighty dollar would decrease in importance, and social awareness and empathy would increase. America would have finally awakened from a long, cold hibernation.

Hell, I can dream can't I?

Can I have some of whatever you are smoking????

Excellent post and I am in full agreement. I see Greed as a driving factor that has brought us to our current form of democracy, and it will be greed that will destroy us. Isnt their some mention about greed in the Ten Commandments?

Donkey® · 10-30-2006, 03:58 PM

War on Terror or not...this country has been headed to hell in a handbasket since the 60's because of one thing...greed. This country has accomplished NOTHING since going to the moon and it will continue to be as we become more and more lazy. Our kids are getting dumber and dumber and we are reliant on the rest of the world for anything and everything. Our military used to be a juggernaut that couldn't be stopped but those days are long gone. Our politicians do nothing but commit crimes, lie to us, make themselves rich, more powerful. They do nothing but attack each other and fight each other...not based on what they BELIEVE...not based on what their CONVICTIONS are...but what their party stance is. Voting is a joke. When the voting isn't rigged, it doesn't mean jack shit anyway because you only have two choices that can win. Half the people eiligible to vote in America don't even vote. Who votes? The ones that benefit from it...the rich. The elite. Our country is in debt to EVERYONE...even Mexico. Our defecit is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in my life. Our mortality rates...our health...or dependencies on drugs...our healthcare system...all failures. We are forced to be scared of terrorists, bird flu, mad cow, SARS, killer bees, Mexicans...whatever the government needs us to be scared of at the time. What happened to "We have nothing to fear but fear itself?" We used to be a brave and strong country now we cower to countries like North Korea and Iran. This country was falling apart and will continue to fall apart whether there are terrorists "attacking" us or not.

DosEquis · 10-30-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What happened to "We have nothing to fear but fear itself?"

There are so many powerful quotes by past presidents that are so true today that I think we should take stock in their statements finally. We should really take a look at what these presidents experienced, relate it to today, and move forward based upon what we learned then. It seems we are rehashing everything over and over, with a different enemy. To start out the modern era the global enemy is nazism, then communism, and now terrorism.

The thing that really confuses me and really disappoints is how people are buying things today that they bought back in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s. They call the enemy the nazi party, but really the enemy was Hitler. They call the enemy communism, but really the enemy was a Russia that was trying to develop an empire by force with the threat of nuclear weapons. Terrorism is unique in that it is a military tactic instead of a political party or form of government, but it is the same in that it is an idea. Using an idea and declaring war on it opens the door to far to many prospects, such as latest example of invading a country that had nothing to do with people who attacked us. Such blanket statements lead to abuse of power and money which ultimately costs all of us, especially those who have sons and daughters serving in the military.

That is just one of our main issues we face that is leaded to the degradation of our country. There are three quotes/speaches that I think really apply to this, and I know I have posted all of them before at one time or another.

1. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Dwight D Eisenhower

2. John McCain: The United States is the greatest force for good in the world. We have, not an obligation to go out and start wars, but certainly to spread democracy and freedom, throughout the world. The question is, where is the line between being a force for good, and imperialism?

3. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering - Nazi Reichsmarshall and Luftwaffe-Chief

Diamond Cross · 10-30-2006, 06:28 PM

In reference to the McCain quote:

But why is it our obligation, just because we have power we should use it?

I don't believe we should be the world's policemen, but I do believe that we should help out our allies where appropiatre and follow the contracts/treaties we've signed with them.

DosEquis · 10-30-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

In reference to the McCain quote:

But why is it our obligation, just because we have power we should use it?

I don't believe we should be the world's policemen, but I do believe that we should help out our allies where appropiatre and follow the contracts/treaties we've signed with them.

I think that is part of what he is talking about in regards to spreading freedom. We dont have an obligation to go start wars (like Iraq) but we should do what we can to spread freedom and democracy. In some cases like Darfur we do truly need to step in. There is a horrible, horrible situation there.

Think about what it really takes to be considered a great nation. Just because everyone who lives here says this is the greatest country in the world does not make it the greatest country in the world. What is important is that everyone else thinks we are the greatest country in the world. Calling yourself great is just arrogant and really proves nothing.

If you want to make a comparison and are familar with football lets talk Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. Both very good recievers but who has more respect? We need to influence freedom and democracy like Jerry Rice and drop the TO attitude.