US kills 80 at religious school in Pakistan

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by 7960

If you harbor a terrorist, you are a terrorist.

And if you happen to be picking out fruit from a market nearby?

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

And if you happen to be picking out fruit from a market nearby?

Terrorist too.

And if you are a kid going to a mosque for your 4th prayer of the day....

[RMNIXON]

So how are the Dems gonna get tough and get Osama without any colateral damage and possible innocent deaths? Tell us the policy?

[motivez]

No one is saying there's going to ever be a perfect policy that is absent collateral damage.. I'm just saying, it's something the US should consider as it moves forward, especially as it relates to attacks against holy sites, religious institutions, etc..

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

So how are the Dems gonna get tough and get Osama without any colateral damage and possible innocent deaths? Tell us the policy?

There is a difference between collateral damage and being remorseful and blowing up a mosque and saying "well, they shouldn't have been muslim, wearing turbins, and been around people who they may or may not have known were terorists." Because the innocent people that are dying, are not really dying because they are helping or hiding terrorists. They are dying because of the country they live in, in this period of time.

And if we are going to continue to carry this out, then we need to have SOME tact with the death and destruction we are causing there.

[7960]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

And if you happen to be picking out fruit from a market nearby?

404 market near this school not found

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

There is a difference between collateral damage and being remorseful and blowing up a mosque and saying "well, they shouldn't have been muslim, wearing turbins, and been around people who they may or may not have known were terorists."

What does muslim or turbans have to do with this? It just so happens that they're muslim but I wouldn't care if we were fighting germans or japanese or british or fucking guamish.... don't go dragging the "you're just saying this because it's cool to be anti-muslim" bullshit. Muslim/turban has NOTHING to do with this. Their "military" using a religious school as a training ground does.

And if we are going to continue to carry this out, then we need to have SOME tact with the death and destruction we are causing there.

"Tact" with death and destruction? Fuck that. "Tact" is getting our soldiers killed. "Tact" is keeping them there longer than they need to be.

"Tact"....... what was patton say.

We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the (other guy) that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy ... cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket!

War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours! ... We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls! We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!

From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more (of them) we will kill. The more (of them) we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed.

Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

[ballz2wallz]

Title is wrong:

At least 80 militants have been killed in an air strike by Pakistani forces on a madrassa (religious school) used as a militant training camp, the army says.

From the updated BBC link.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by 7960

404 market near this school not found

True, I don't doubt the people in these 'schools', were very innocent. The market thing primarily relates to a few bombings we have done in Iraq on city markets because we suspected top Iraqi's moving through.

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

True, I don't doubt the people in these 'schools', were very innocent. The market thing primarily relates to a few bombings we have done in Iraq on city markets because we suspected top Iraqi's moving through.

In "Shock and Awe" we killed no Iraqi soldiers.

US Air Force teams conducted 50 air strikes and 42 resulted in civilian casualties. This was the first strike of Operation Iraqi Freedom and we showed no tact, our bombs killed women and children not soldiers or terrorists. We deliberately dropped explosives on civilians (farms, houses, roads and other civilian targets) just for the "shock and awe" effect.

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by 7960

it's a "religious school" but it was "used as a militant training camp"...... this is not a daycare.

Intelligence said there were "70-80 militants ... hiding in a madrassa used as a terrorist training facility." An eyewitness said it was locals..... why is the eyewitness right and the intelligence wrong?

Becuase this is America's war and there's a high chance you're looking straight into the face of propaganda from intelligence officials. 90% of any war is psychological, even the USM admits that ultimately, in fact the last battle is won in the mind and not on the ground.

I am sure you have conveniently forgotten how Pakistani Intelligence (ISI) ordered the transfer of funds from Pakistani banks to MUHAMMED ATTA, the lead 9/11 hijacker. The figure is; a definite $100,000 transfer ordered by Pakistani ISI General Mahmud Ahmed to a Western Union branch in southern Florida. From this location it was picked up and used to train the 9/11 terrorists how to hijack planes in American flight schools. And here from Pakistan we have the start of this "War on Terror".

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

True, I don't doubt the people in these 'schools', were very innocent. The market thing primarily relates to a few bombings we have done in Iraq on city markets because we suspected top Iraqi's moving through.

You know better than that; when have we bombed a market? It's the Iraqi militias that target markets. What's the reason our enemies hide themselves among civilians? I'll give you a hint...because we won't kill them for fear of killing civilians.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 7960

No, because it's here. If a terrorist is hiding out in a school or mosque or gay baby whale sanctuary over there, yes.

I'm sure it'll get your panties in a knot but

we >>>>>>> them
here >>>>>>> there
americans >>>>>>>> non-

The interesting thing is that is one of the points terrorists make about why the US should be attacked.

If you create more terrorists, to kill one terrorist is this a good thing?

[alan1000]

Originally Posted by motivez

Now, let me preface this by saying that if we have a chance to go after Zawahiri or Osama, we should take it. Chances are those who died were not nice people, most likely support Al Qaeda, and would probably have defended them using force if given the chance.

Now, the article:

The Blotter



Now, I'm not going to defend the people who died, but I wanted to point out something that's interesting.. Attacks like these are what make it so easy for them to recruit new people.

When we attack their religious institutions, especially a religious teaching institution, it becomes much easier to for them to frame this conflict as a war against the religion of Islam, and thus being able to link it to a "new crusade".

They had a little snippet of something that I wasn't able to listen to on NPR today, but it talked about calling them things like Jihadists, and how while it is a negative association to be called it in the Western world, for them, it's a distinguished title and position of honor, because it means they're fighting in the name of God on a holy mission.

We have a lot of educating to do, it is very apparent that we have a clash of civilizations, assuming they are civil (a stretch.)

AMERICANS believe in their freedoms to exercise their religious belief as long as those beliefs do not harm others. Once these idiots grasp that concept the dying will stop and the need to kill others in the name of ones GOD will be over.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You know better than that; when have we bombed a market? It's the Iraqi militias that target markets. What's the reason our enemies hide themselves among civilians? I'll give you a hint...because we won't kill them for fear of killing civilians.

One of the 'decapitating strikes' aimed at saddam was on a city market another was aimed at a restaurant. Both killed primarily women and children and hit no military personel.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

In "Shock and Awe" we killed no Iraqi soldiers.

US Air Force teams conducted 50 air strikes and 42 resulted in civilian casualties. This was the first strike of Operation Iraqi Freedom and we showed no tact, our bombs killed women and children not soldiers or terrorists. We deliberately dropped explosives on civilians (farms, houses, roads and other civilian targets) just for the "shock and awe" effect.

not sure why you were quoting me

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

not sure why you were quoting me

You were talking about killing innocents in schools and markets.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by 7960

What does muslim or turbans have to do with this? It just so happens that they're muslim but I wouldn't care if we were fighting germans or japanese or british or fucking guamish.... don't go dragging the "you're just saying this because it's cool to be anti-muslim" bullshit. Muslim/turban has NOTHING to do with this. Their "military" using a religious school as a training ground does.
"Tact" with death and destruction? Fuck that. "Tact" is getting our soldiers killed. "Tact" is keeping them there longer than they need to be.

"Tact"....... what was patton say.

We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the (other guy) that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy ... cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket!

War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours! ... We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls! We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!

From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more (of them) we will kill. The more (of them) we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed.

Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

Patten was a sonofabitch, but he was right about a lot of things.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Patten was a sonofabitch, but he was right about a lot of things.

I wouldn't let him coach my kids, but I'd definitely want him fighting my wars.