I can't believe there isn't a thread about this yet, Patriot Act > * - Page 2

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Yeah, Lincold did it. Amazing.

This is new. It's plenty new to us since this hasn't been in effect during any of our lifetimes before. Using the "lincoln did it too" defense is about 130 years more pathetic that the "clinton did it too" excuse. Also many people hate lincoln because of this.

Yes, others have done it too, which supports my claim that IT'S NOT NEW, and Bush has done nothing new.

And one more tidbit, we were at war back then. Officially at war. We are not at war now no matter how bad you wish it.

We are at war, no matter how much you wish it wasn't true. It's this mindset that is terribly dangerous to the country.

I asked if you have lost any liberties. You responded with eminent domain, which has not affected you directly, but seem to have ignored the loss of habeas corpus for the same reason.

That makes the answer even easier. No, I've not lost any liberties because of the Bush admin. I've lost far more just by moving to Massachusetts.

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Yes, others have done it too, which supports my claim that IT'S NOT NEW, and Bush has done nothing new.

So then putting the first born under the sword should be fine too since it's not new.

You are correct this isn't the first time anyone has ever done this. But it's still new to us since none of us have ever lived under this before.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

We are at war, no matter how much you wish it wasn't true. It's this mindset that is terribly dangerous to the country.

Congress declares war. They haven't. We are not at war. Wishing it doesn't make it true.

Your mindset is what's dangerous, far more than any terrorist.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That makes the answer even easier. No, I've not lost any liberties because of the Bush admin. I've lost far more just by moving to Massachusetts.

Like...? Name a liberty you have lost please.

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

So then putting the first born under the sword should be fine too since it's not new.

You are correct this isn't the first time anyone has ever done this. But it's still new to us since none of us have ever lived under this before.

That changes nothing. Just because you're young doesn't make it any more special.

[quote]Congress declares war. They haven't. We are not at war. Wishing it doesn't make it true.[/quiote]Declaration or not, Congress voted for it.

Your mindset is what's dangerous, far more than any terrorist.

How original.

Like...? Name a liberty you have lost please.

The right to bear arms

The right to smoke in a consenting establishment

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

That changes nothing. Just because you're young doesn't make it any more special.

Young? Like not 140 years old?

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Declaration or not, Congress voted for it.

War? No. You are mistaken. They did not vote for war.

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

The right to bear arms

The right to smoke in a consenting establishment

You can't own a gun in Mass?

Smoking ban in public is all over. That's not because you moved there.

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Young? Like not 140 years old?

Yup.

You can't own a gun in Mass?

You can own one, you can't bear one. Trust me, I've tried.

Smoking ban in public is all over. That's not because you moved there.

It wasn't where I came from, and since I've moved here, I've lost that liberty. Sorry, that's how it is.

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

It wasn't where I came from, and since I've moved here, I've lost that liberty. Sorry, that's how it is.

So it's because you moved to Mass. Alrighty then.
I guess everyone outside of Mass is just imagining the smoking bans.

You have a funny cause/effect notion.

6SpeedTA95 · 10-31-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

The new version of the patriot act is one of the minor offenses of the Bush Administration when you compare it to the rest of the shit they've done.

From everything I've read the new version of the patriot act is a HUGE improvement over the initial act and no longer violates the consitution or judicial precedent. You know more about this than I do though, so do you agree?

WickedLou9 · 10-31-2006, 10:15 AM

I heard about that on NPR the other day.

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 10:17 AM

And you are from Missouri, right Ballz?

Columbia Missourian - Smoking ban passes

Just one example. It seems that there are a few cities with smoking bans. That's how it starts.

Obviously a Kennedy's fault.

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I guess everyone outside of Mass is just imagining the smoking bans.

There wasn't one where I moved from

I moved to MA, I lost that liberty. That's the reality of it. I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

kinggovernor · 10-31-2006, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

They are by making terrible precedents, why I don't have the time (nor the inclination, i mean we got the election in a week!) they are making rules that could easily be twisted to hurt every american

my prime example are militia groups out west, the anti-government ones who train as paramilitaries. Using logic Bush has used 2001-2006, the next president (say Hillary) could declare them terrorists (some of them are, see McVeigh) and round up hundreds of people and detain them, and torture them, then using wiretap technology, find all the people they are talking to, which would almost certainly be gun-rights groups, declare them terrorists as well, and conduct a massive campaign conducted by the US federal military to confiscate every gun in America, if violence breaks out, martial law is put into effect, news media is frozen, and silently, house by house, america is disarmed

now, thats a nightmare scenario for many of you, but again we are setting the precedent for something like that to happen

welcome back to reality, that would not happen because congress would not let it happen. Look at how the country responded to ruby ridge.

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And you are from Missouri, right Ballz?

No, I was born there. Moved out when I was two.

WickedLou9 · 10-31-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And you are from Missouri, right Ballz?

Columbia Missourian - Smoking ban passes

Just one example. It seems that there are a few cities with smoking bans. That's how it starts.

Obviously a Kennedy's fault.

It's banned in NJ, Philly, MA ,NYC. Alot of places are doing it.

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

It's banned in NJ, Philly, MA ,NYC. Alot of places are doing it.

It's banned all over.

I was trying to counter his claim that by moving to Mass he lost the right to smoke in public. People are loosing that right all over. He didn't lose it because he moved to Mass, he lost it because everyone is banning smoking now.

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

It's banned all over.

I was trying to counter his claim that by moving to Mass he lost the right to smoke in public. People are loosing that right all over. He didn't lose it because he moved to Mass, he lost it because everyone is banning smoking now.

You asked for my personal experience, I gave it to you.

Scrum · 10-31-2006, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You asked for my personal experience, I gave it to you.

Where did you move from?

If they enacted a ban at the same time Mass did, would you still say you lost that right(which is a whole other subject) because you moved to Mass?

ballz2wallz · 10-31-2006, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Where did you move from?

Nashville.

If they enacted a ban at the same time Mass did, would you still say you lost that right(which is a whole other subject) because you moved to Mass?

But they didn't change when MA did