Originally Posted by ballz2wallz A person can sit down and write out books upon books of how the powers that be can be 'overzealous' and 'abuse' the system, even as it's set up now. To sit and speculate over how this or that could be abused this way or that ...
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10-31-2006, 02:18 PM
| #21 | ||||
| For those about to rock...  libertarian Atlanta, GA 
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz But preventing the possibilities should be a great concern of ours. Do you think Germans thought giving Hitler all that power would end the way it did? They setup those powers BEFORE him, then put him in power because they felt he could fix their problems.
Restrictions are placed on ALL levels and parts of government in America for a VERY good reason: to prevent civil abuses and tyrany. To promote the lifting of those restrictions is to promote tyrany, if not by the current administration, which you support (it's probably why you want the lifted restricitons in the first place), then in a future unforeseen adminstration that you cannot currently predict. Plain and simple, it's dangerous!
__________________ http://www.corruptapedia.com/ You can call me Aaron Burr the way I drop Hamiltons. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:20 PM
| #22 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator  Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost
 I don't trust anyone with this amount of power and lack of accountability. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:22 PM
| #23 | ||||
| Banned  Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost But we DO have a system where that won't happen, or we can prevent it if someone tries. That's the way our government is set up!
Sure, it's dangerous to give unlimited powers to someone in power, but think about it; is this the only time the government has had powers 'that could be abused by someone in the future'? Of course not. Has anybody abused the powers they could have had? Of course not. Our government isn't set up for that to happen. There's no need to become melodramatic about it with the Bush admin, just as you won't be if a Democrat is in office. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:22 PM
| #24 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent You've trusted the government your entire life, there's nothing now that should make you change your opinion.
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10-31-2006, 02:28 PM
| #25 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator  Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Nothing now? How can you trust an administration and government that has been wrong on 80% of every issue they face? Not to mention all of the bribes and scandals from lobbying.
We need a change and then those who do end up in there need to prove themselves before I think about trusting them again. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:32 PM
| #26 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz The New American - Suspending Habeas Corpus - July 15, 2002
USA PATRIOT Act (H.R. 3162) Just 2 examples of what is different. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:32 PM
| #27 | ||||
| For those about to rock... libertarian Atlanta, GA
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Powers HAVE been destroyed in the past that later presidents used. Precedents WERE set that continued in that unsafe direction. No one would have even thought about instituting an income tax before Lincoln forced one to fund the civil war. 50 years later it was pushed and pushed by the government until a younger generation didn't care as much and allowed it to happen. Habeus Corpus had NEVER been suspended before Lincoln (unless you count the Alien and Sedition Act), and both Wilson and FDR used that as an excuse for them doing it. Sometime in the past 50 years, we started contracting out military duties, creating a situation where corporations have interest in war. This would have been unheard of in the earlier wars. We never before Korea had used the treaty loophole to get us into a war, but now that's the status quo for entering wars (who needs congressional approval anyway?)
Everything we give up, every-single-thing that we allow to pass by unquestioned and unchecked, will only snowball and get bigger. It'll become more frequent. Future presidents (dictators?) will use the previous "success" as an excuse for further use. And every step breaks down the current checking system more and more. It has happened a thousand times in history, yet we do not learn. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:32 PM
| #28 | ||||
| Ron Paul '08  Republican Queens, NY
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Except we have a bumbling Texan with the power to suspend Habeus Corpus sitting at the wheel of this fine country, a war-contractor for a Vice President (that's not sensationalism, Cheney does pass Halliburton and KBR contracts [for himself basically, as he was the sitting CEO]).
And what really makes me sleep soundly at night is the fact that we now have sitting as the Secretary of Defense; a single man posessing a budget of world-conquest proportions. Yeah, ALL things considered.... I feel safe. Last edited by Nonphixion; 10-31-2006 at 02:42 PM.. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 02:35 PM
| #29 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost Now show me something that's been abused and allowed a tyrant into power?
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10-31-2006, 02:38 PM
| #30 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz I am just making note of a conservative republican saying "trust the government".
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10-31-2006, 02:39 PM
| #31 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz Enabling Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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10-31-2006, 02:40 PM
| #32 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by DosEquis
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10-31-2006, 03:34 PM
| #33 | ||||
| For those about to rock... libertarian Atlanta, GA
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz If you're talking about "in America" then you have to see how once a tyrant is in power it's too late. Otherwise, Scrum's German example is sufficient
 It also backs up what I just said (about it being too late) | ||||
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10-31-2006, 03:47 PM
| #34 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent This affects only noncitizens who have been imprisoned for terrorist activities. If this affects you, you have more important things to worry about. I think we've already shown that this does not infringe on anybody's rights. | ||||
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10-31-2006, 03:48 PM
| #35 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by DosEquis You should probably focus on whether or not people are just suddenly deciding they don't trust the government based on partisanship. That's really what's goin on here.
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10-31-2006, 03:49 PM
| #36 | ||||
| Banned Conservative Government is another way to say Better Than You
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost Yes, I'm talking about 'in America'. And it'll never happen because our government isn't set up for a possibility that it could happen.
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10-31-2006, 03:49 PM
| #37 | ||||
| Anti-War, Anti-State, Pro-Free Market  Capitalist
| Originally Posted by hsmith
The president is constitutionally quite a weak role in our government.  | ||||
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10-31-2006, 03:49 PM
| #38 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by ballz2wallz This affects all of us.
Originally Posted by ballz2wallz
What would have made you think that? | ||||
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10-31-2006, 03:50 PM
| #39 |
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs |
