John Kerry on our lazy, uneducated military

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

He apologized. And not in the half ass way that's being described here.

"I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended"

I've been away from the news for a few hours. When was that? Becuase that's not what he said when he was first told what he said was offensive.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by 7960

I've been away from the news for a few hours. When was that? Becuase that's not what he said when he was first told what he said was offensive.

WHSV | Kerry's Apology

Two days after John Kerry made this comment to students in California, he released a written statement saying, "I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," says John Kerry.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

WHSV | Kerry's Apology

Two days after John Kerry made this comment to students in California, he released a written statement saying, "I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," says John Kerry.

.....what a piece of shit he is.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

There are probably a hundred more accounts of spitting happening.

The 60's/70's are the romantic era for liberals. Great music, free sex, lots of drugs, and a successful anti-war campaign. The "Golden Age" so-to-speak. They did some bad things, and some are trying to say it never happened. It did happen. I work with 3 Vietnam vets. 2 said they were spit at (neither got hit) and all three said they were verbally assaulted more than once. These people were treated badly by the left when they returned home (thanks to the likes of John Kerry and Jane Fonda). A lot were drafted but that didn't seem to make a difference. When you are anti-war, liberals seem to think you have free reign to say or do anything.

If spitting on vets was so common and experienced by so many all over the country, where is there no concrete evidence of it? No reports? No videos? No nothing? This guy wrote a whole book on the lack of evidence surrounding the "spit on vets" legend. Amazon.com: The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam: Books: Jerry Lembcke

Obviously since I cannot prove a negative, I can't say for sure, but it does look awfully suspicious that something supposedly so common is only backed up by anecdotes. By the same token, I think it'd be unrealistic to say it NEVER happened, because with several hundred million people in America, everything is going to happen at least once. But it's probably more likely that there were a few rare spitting incidents that were exaggerated into being common because of what they symbolized.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Yep. The Democratic party endorsed spitting on returning Vietnam vets.

Who said the democratic party endorsed spitting on soldiers? You're changing the words I said and framing it into a different argument altogether so you can sound right.

Kerry's statements were a critique of the policy in Vietnam, not a slam against the troops themselves. Of course, you conservatives will refute this, as you see critiques of governments as being equal to critisizing troops (see Iraq).

It was a critique of the actions of the soldiers:

Originally Posted by John Kerry

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

His actions and words were key in the anti-military/soldier sentiment of the liberal hippy era.

I don't see any prominent Democrats supporting the CNN video, although I wouldn't care, as CNN has every fucking right to show said video due to the 1st amendment.

We're not talking about prominent Democrats. Why are you taking a macro concept to a micro level? Most elected Democratic officials weren't spitting on soldiers either. Doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of accounts of it. Your spinning it into another issue by changing my statement to only elected officials. And by the way, many people like Pelosi and Reid did say they approved of CNN running it.

As for the whole 'Murtha thing', he was bringing the investigation to the public light, and it is debatable as to what intelligence/information he had on the subject beforhand.

It is not debatable as to whether or not there was an investigation. I know this because the investigation was ongoing and he hadn't even read the report yet.

REP. JOHN “JACK” MURTHA: Well, I’ll tell you exactly what happened. One Marine was killed and the Marines just said we’re going to take care – we don’t know who the enemy is, the pressure was too much on them, so they went into houses and they actually killed civilians. And, and –

MATTHEWS:—was this My Lai? Was this a case of – when you say cold blood Congressman, a lot of people think you’re basically saying you got some civilians sitting in a room around a field and they’re executed.

MURTHA: That’s exactly it.
...

Murtha's comments were the first on-the-record remarks by a U.S. official characterizing the findings of military investigators looking into the Nov. 19 incident. Murtha, the ranking Democrat on the Defense Appropriations subcommittee and an opponent of Bush administration policy in Iraq, said he hadn't read the report but had learned about its findings from military commanders and other sources.

...

The Marine Corps issued a statement in response to Murtha's remarks:

"There is an ongoing investigation; therefore, any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process. As soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made, we will make that information available to the public to the fullest extent allowable."

My words were about calling our soldiers guilty of war crimes before investigations. That is true. You can't deny this hasn't happened. You're spinning what I said into another issue.

I think you are confusing comments 'negative about the military' with critisizing the administration and failed policies. Again, conservatives have difficult times with things like this.

No no no, Kerry has said negative things about our military. See the quote above. And here's the Clinton quote I referred to:

I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many

If you paste that into Google I'm sure you can find the entire letter he wrote.

As far as the flag issue is concerned, it is debatable as to whether or not it is unpatriotic to burn the american flag. One side sees it as a slap in the face to veterans, another side sees it as the ultimate expression of free speech. Of course, I bet you disagree with this.

I'll tell you right now. From a military standpoint it's unpatriotic to burn the flag. The only people who don't think so are liberals. What speech exactly is it implying when you burn the flag? Patriotism? Support of military action? The flag is a symbol. They look at burning the flag as burning what it stands for. Otherwise people would just burn pictures of Bush and the administration.

And for the overall response to your post, you and other conservatives really need to make a fucking attempt at trying to realize that it is possible to DEEPLY disagree with this god-damned administration and its military policies without being against the troops.

I never said anything about liberals being against our troops other than the specific examples of it. I never generalized anyone as hating the troops. It's a shame you think I feel people who disagree with our administration are against our troops. That is not the case. People who are against the troops, however, are against the troops. And believe or not, there are people in this country who have throughout the history of our nation been against the troops. Most distinctly Vietnam. And once again, those people who were against the troops were of what political ideology? Does that mean all liberals during Vietnam were against the troops. Of course not. But it is a reality. CNN shows a sniper shooting American soldiers, it's the Republicans and conservatives who cry foul and the liberals who defend. The liberal media and politicians jump all over our troops and call them guilty of war crimes before an investigation and it's the conservatives who cry foul and the liberals who defend it (meanwhile defending the terrorists when the same happens... shows where their priorities are). You can see clear examples of this on this message board. Hell you can even see it in this thread:

Originally Posted by infinite loop

pretty much.

there are only two groups who give a shit about those comments: the rightwingers who are deathly affraid of losing power next week and the military.

fuck 'em both.

Now do these people make up every liberal's views? Of course not. But it is more typically liberal than it is conservative to hold these views.

As for Bush and his stance with the military...I'll let this video speak for itself. Making light of not finding WMDs, and hence those lives given up for the mission, is a million times worse than anything Kerry has ever said.

YouTube - Bush Jokes About Missing WMD in Iraq

And Bush is wrong for doing that. It was in bad taste. But it has nothing to do with his "stance" on the military. It was just a sick joke. Nowhere in that video did Bush imply an opinion of our servicemen. While he was wrong for doing what he did, he was wrong for a different reason than you are trying to imply.

If you have the gaul to be critical of Kerry and not Bush after seeing his 'jokes' about WMDs, shame on you.

I'm very critical of Bush. Just because I have a conservative ideology on certain issues doesn't mean I defend everything Bush does.
I enjoy making fun of the Bush administration as much as the next guy
Bush vs. Cheney Debate
Bush > Kerry

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

Two days after John Kerry made this comment to students in California, he released a written statement saying, "I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," says John Kerry.

.....what a piece of shit he is.

I agree. Also look at the wording of his apology:

T As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: my poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and never intended to refer to any troop.

I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended.

It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy. I don’t want my verbal slip to be a diversion from the real issues. I will continue to fight for a change of course to provide real security for our country, and a winning strategy for our troops.

His apology is worded to apologize for the Republican party misinterpreting and lying to people as a diversion.
He still hasn't taken full responsibility for it. It's still the GOP's fault.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

In support of your post:




Comparing this country's Viet Nam War experience to what is going on today
is like comparing apples to applesauce. The world has moved on....

There are hundreds of first-hand accounts of Vietnam vets coming home and being spit on if you're willing to spend 30 seconds looking for them. They're found online, in books, by talking to vets.

Unless of course they're all lying. And then using the logic of the liberals here against Kerry that would make you a chickenhawk.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Kerry apologized.

He apologized for the evil GOP's misinterpretation. And he sincerely apologizes to anyone who was offended by what the GOP did

[Thorgrim]

I know you guys don't like this site, but its a diary from a random person, not a preacher or a main poster, etc...i think it shows what kind of guy Kerry really is

Daily Kos: My family and John Kerry

being a politician is hard, trying to say the right thing at every time...be reasonable and tell your values without having your audience fall asleep, but then putting in things to rile the base but not going overboard to insult the other party

its rough, and what someone says as a political move, i usually judge that last about a person's character

what they do IN PRIVATE however, I take with much more weight, and in several 04 stories you had nonpartisans talking about Kerry in a positive light in how he was in private moments

[7960]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

If spitting on vets was so common and experienced by so many all over the country, where is there no concrete evidence of it? No reports?

What do you mean no reports? What did we read above?? Those look like firsthand accounts to me.

No videos?

In 1969? Why don't you ask for pictures of the spitting taken from the space shuttle while you're at it? Videos?? Really???

No nothing? This guy wrote a whole book on the lack of evidence surrounding the "spit on vets" legend. Amazon.com: The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam: Books: Jerry Lembcke

You've got one guy saying nobody spit on vets and he's right, but you get hundreds of vets saying they were spit on/at and they're lying?

Obviously since I cannot prove a negative, I can't say for sure, but it does look awfully suspicious that something supposedly so common is only backed up by anecdotes.

Here's my favorite:

One pro-war Vietnam-vet claimed he was spat upon in uniform, though he didn't specify the circumstances of the incident. While there's little doubt that some Vietnam vets in uniform were spat upon during those turbulent years, no proof exists that antiwar protesters were the spitters.

link

Wow.......I guess people just randomly walked up to anyone in uniform and spit. I bet the UPS man had to do laundry 2-3 times/day during the war

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

If spitting on vets was so common and experienced by so many all over the country, where is there no concrete evidence of it? No reports? No videos? No nothing? This guy wrote a whole book on the lack of evidence surrounding the "spit on vets" legend. Amazon.com: The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam: Books: Jerry Lembcke

Obviously since I cannot prove a negative, I can't say for sure, but it does look awfully suspicious that something supposedly so common is only backed up by anecdotes. By the same token, I think it'd be unrealistic to say it NEVER happened, because with several hundred million people in America, everything is going to happen at least once. But it's probably more likely that there were a few rare spitting incidents that were exaggerated into being common because of what they symbolized.

Jerry Lembcke huh? Not a very good source apparently:
The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[nbiggershaft]

You guys are like vultures. 11 pages on a comment that was misinterpreted at a college somewhere. It's no better than a goofy picture of a politician midsetence being plastered over the news.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Look back at that. The denials, the charges that it was media hype, and that the volume was played with! All B.S. and I know because I saw the Dean Scream LIVE!

So that meant it should be replayed 5 k times? Perhaps if his voice had cracked he wouldn't have been a maniac, he would have been a prepubescent.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy. I don’t want my verbal slip to be a diversion from the real issues. I will continue to fight for a change of course to provide real security for our country, and a winning strategy for our troops.

I'd say that's a pretty acurate description of modern politics. (from both sides)
I'm happier he stood up for himself in some way. This wouldn't have blown up with out sensationist media and propagandists.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by 7960

What do you mean no reports? What did we read above?? Those look like firsthand accounts to me.

Reputable accounts recorded at the time when the event supposedly happened, not anecdotes taken from random people on the freeper message board.

Originally Posted by 7960

In 1969? Why don't you ask for pictures of the spitting taken from the space shuttle while you're at it? Videos?? Really???

I've seen plenty of video from the Vietnam era, particularly video of protests. You haven't?

Originally Posted by 7960

You've got one guy saying nobody spit on vets and he's right, but you get hundreds of vets saying they were spit on/at and they're lying?

I'm not necessarily saying he's right or they're lying; I'm simply asking, if it was so common, why there is no evidence of it.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Jerry Lembcke huh? Not a very good source apparently:
The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neither is your source, David Horowitz, who says Lembcke is a bad source.

David Horowitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Diamond Cross]

For something to garner this many responses, he definately touched a nerve on many people throughout the country.

[Stylerod]

Just saw on the local news Kerry said he will not do anymore campaigning this election cycle

[thatguyoverthere]

John Kerry is a dumbass. Democrats were doing well until he stuck his foot in his mouth. His comments were insulting. It doesn't matter if it was a blown joke or not; he needed to apologize for the words he said, not the words he didn't say.

The media coverage of this puts the lie to the claim of a "liberal media" too. The media are vultures who look to other media sources for their cues, not to either political party. Their priority is not a political agenda, it's to have the story on first. Look at the Dean scream; the media ate him alive, yet retards still claim there's a "liberal media." Total BS.

(For the record: Dean was screaming at a post election rally. Newsflash: It's appropriate for people to scream at rallies, k?)

Diamond Cross is right, and it just makes me wonder why we got involved in Iraq at all when it's perfectly clear that we have not yet healed from the wounds of Vietnam. Yet another argument against war, but still we insist on waging them.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by 7960

Two days after John Kerry made this comment to students in California, he released a written statement saying, "I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended," says John Kerry.

.....what a piece of shit he is.

Bush still hasn't apologized for getting us into Iraq, so I can handle him waiting 2 days to apologize over a botched line was was reciting.