John Kerry on our lazy, uneducated military

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by smokie700

Why does everyone assume that the soldiers are stuck in iraq? Most new soldiers in the military have joined knowing we are at war. Most old soldiers are reenlisting knowing the deployment rotation. We have a strictly VOLUNTEER military. That means no one is forced to join.

How long are you obligated to be in the military after you join? Like 4 years? If so, aren't there still people in Iraq now who signed up and likely had no idea they'd wind up in Iraq?

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

This is really interesting. It's like the elephant in the living room. Everyone knows it, everyone thinks it, but no one is supposed to talk about it.

Anyway, I disagree that he said it for no reason at all than to attack the GOP. How about he's genuinely concerned for the people stuck in Iraq and would like to see people have more options via school? I mean, certainly a lot of parents don't want their kids to feel pressured to go to Iraq for lack of other options, and certainly it has occurred to a lot of soldiers that they might have been better off to stay in school. What is so wrong with a politician echoing that sentiment? It's taboo, apparently...

How about the fact that he said it at a Community College that is pretty shitty campaigning for Phil Angelides....that might have some context to it...

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

How long are you obligated to be in the military after you join? Like 4 years? If so, aren't there still people in Iraq now who signed up and likely had no idea they'd wind up in Iraq?

A guy I know signed up to go to Afganistan. He signed for 4 years, and then his contract is for another 4 years of Non Active Duty (which to me, is basically draft, he served his Active for 4 years, and now that he's done that much, if they decide to do ANOTHER war, they can call him back at any time.) and he's got another year and a half and hopefully they won't take him. Although he knew that when he signed, he didn't know we would be initiating a war like we did.

[smokie700]

Jeez people its the military, not the cool job corp with pretty uniforms. The main function of the military is to fight in wars. The terrorist attacks happened in 2001 and most contracts are 4 years. So anyone with less than 5 years in the service knew we would be in war.

Your buddy is right every military contract is 8 years. a portion of it is active duty or drilling reserves and the other part is IRR (inactive ready reserve) This is explained in very much detail upon enlisting and before signing the contract. While it is rare to get called up for the IRR it does happen (wartime or not).

wow, what a douchecanoe

[kinggovernor]

what a faggot

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

A guy I know signed up to go to Afganistan. He signed for 4 years, and then his contract is for another 4 years of Non Active Duty (which to me, is basically draft, he served his Active for 4 years, and now that he's done that much, if they decide to do ANOTHER war, they can call him back at any time.) and he's got another year and a half and hopefully they won't take him. Although he knew that when he signed, he didn't know we would be initiating a war like we did.

no it is not

[six6ftr]

Ok, I guess I will give my input on this whole thing. Yes contracts are 8 yrs whether you do a 6 X 2 or a 4 X 4. for the record, they are calling up inactive soldiers on a regular basis. Unfortunately those that get out, never felt they would get called back because in the past it never happened. Now that the Reserves and National Guard have been over tasked, the Military started calling the IRR/ING. With that, if you are in a Unit that has already been to war and are sitting in the 5 yr rotation window ( I am only talking about National Guard Now) and you have not been to war, you will recieve a set of orders detaching you from that unit and putting you in a unit heading to Iraq.

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by six6ftr

With that, if you are in a Unit that has already been to war and are sitting in the 5 yr rotation window ( I am only talking about National Guard Now) and you have not been to war, you will recieve a set of orders detaching you from that unit and putting you in a unit heading to Iraq.

Waiting on that. My unit got back 2 months after i got back in and not slotted to deploy again for another 4 years. Also I haven't heard of too many people getting called back for IRR and there is every branch on island. (Don't get me wrong, I've heard of some but not to the extent that people think)

[six6ftr]

Well I am retention and I deal with it on a regular basis and have priviledge to reports on these types of things. If you are in the guard you might want to ask about the rotation schedule because it does exist even if your command does not tell you about it. I went to the briefings on it.

[six6ftr]

I now tell my soldiers that if they are getting out and have time to spend in the IRR/ING, they are better off finding another unit rather than being called up once they hit that roster.

[smokie700]

Originally Posted by six6ftr

Well I am retention and I deal with it on a regular basis and have priviledge to reports on these types of things. If you are in the guard you might want to ask about the rotation schedule because it does exist even if your command does not tell you about it. I went to the briefings on it.

I have a full bird on the inside that i get my info from. I know the next slotted deployment but didn't want to mention it publically. Right now they are taking volunteers for a task force deployment but the next full scale is later down the road. kinda sucks too because by that time we will have been forced to be cav instead of infantry.

[six6ftr]

Ok so you are aware of the rotation. Yeah, we are being forced into these completely different roles seems like with every deployment.

[JaJae]

Pasadena Star-News - Dem stars rally on campus

Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs - "If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Pasadena Star-News - Dem stars rally on campus

I still think he has a valid point. If you want a job that will support a family, and especially in California, support yourself, you have to go to college, or, the only other alternative (aside from the "magic" job that gets you all you want and you didn't need training for it.) is to join the Military to get college paid through them, and right now, if you sign up, you will go to Iraq.

Is it unfair to say the same for Vietnam? If you didn't want to go to the military, you went to school. People went to school because they didn't want to die in Vietnam. I don't believe that he's making an unfair statement.

[DosEquis]

I agree with him to a certain extent. He could have probably worded it better as to not stir up the pot so much. I think he should be able to make such statements because they are true in a general sense, but he shouldn't do it in a way that seems so mocking.

A volunteer force is going to have a decent percentage of people who basically had 'no other option'. They are not that educated, live in shitty neighborhoods, barely have enough money to eat, mom is all cracked out, and dad is no where to be found. Tuition for college is ridiculous and they can barely afford to eat and pay the electric bill at the same time. So where else do they turn? The military is always hiring, especially when they need more to send over there. They pay decent, especially if you get some rank under your belt.

At the same time it creates an environment where the more fortunate stay home while the rest put themselves in harms way.

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I agree with him to a certain extent. He could have probably worded it better as to not stir up the pot so much. I think he should be able to make such statements because they are true in a general sense, but he shouldn't do it in a way that seems so mocking.

A volunteer force is going to have a decent percentage of people who basically had 'no other option'. They are not that educated, live in shitty neighborhoods, barely have enough money to eat, mom is all cracked out, and dad is no where to be found. Tuition for college is ridiculous and they can barely afford to eat and pay the electric bill at the same time. So where else do they turn? The military is always hiring, especially when they need more to send over there. They pay decent, especially if you get some rank under your belt.

At the same time it creates an environment where the more fortunate stay home while the rest put themselves in harms way.

A lot of lower class people join the military but why is that bad and how does that make them stupid? Isn't that using the resources available to them in this country? And no one is forced into the military they could go to college instead of the military if they so choose.

[ballz2wallz]

It's that 'intellectual elitism' coming out again. The Democrats always win when they tell the people they are smarter than everyone else!

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

It's that 'intellectual elitism' coming out again. The Democrats always win when they tell the people they are smarter than everyone else!

How did you glean that from what he said?

He didn't compare himlself to anyone or say he was more intelligent. He simply said "Go to school or end up on the front lines" which isn't that far from the truth right now..

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

He didn't compare himlself to anyone or say he was more intelligent. He simply said "Go to school or end up on the front lines" which isn't that far from the truth right now..

Sure it is.