John Kerry on our lazy, uneducated military

[KatKanPlay]

Yep lets debate on yet another smoke screen that takes away from real issues.

[JaJae]

YouTube Video

[Vietvet]

Originally Posted by JaJae

First, I don't know if Kerry misspoke or not. He was doing one liner stand-up jokes. Why would he insult someone else's education when they did better then him? That makes no sense. When he told the joke, the audience gasped. It's not just the GOP and crazy people misunderstanding or taking what he said out of context.

If he misspoke he needs to humble himself and apology, not attack. He has a history of saying negative things about our troops. If he didn't mean to insult them again he needs to say that. Because he can't just say "I'm a veteran, I would never say anything negative about our troops." He's the only idiot who believes that.

Has has generalized our troops in Vietnam as doing all sorts of horrible things and he has generalized our soldiers in Iraq are terrorizing, raping, etc.

He has a long history of seeing our servicemen as either victims or perpetrators. And when you're in a public office and you "misspeak", if it offends the majority of the nation you should come out and explain and humble yourself. Instead he attacks Bush, the GOP, the White House, all the way into infinity. He is sounding like Howard Dean right now which is something the Democrats didn't think he was capable of during the 2004 elections. There really is no difference between them at this point.

First, I will say that Kerry isn't much of a comedian, and jokes aren't his strong suit. As for Bush "doing better than him", I'm not so sure Bush actually LEARNED much. He certainly didn't "do his homework" regarding the unwarranted Iraq invasion, and obviously didn't learn much about world history. Otherwise, he would have known better than to try to impose a western style democracy on a people who have been fighting against and killing each other for thousands of years.Kerry had plenty of time to learn in a real world called Vietnam. He learned that war is no game to be played by armchair idealogues who don't know what they are doing.

Secondly, you expect Kerry to come out and apologize and "explain and humble" himself. Well, some of us are still waiting for BUSH to come out and "explain and humble" himself by admitting that he didn't know what in the Hell he was doing when he so foolishly sent our troops into harm's way. For no logical reason whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath on that. Lord knows it's WAY overdue. Kerry's remarks don't amount to a hill of beans when compared to Bush's total and inexcusable incompetance, which has cost America nearly 3,000 lives and around twenty thousand wounded.

Thirdly, when Kerry came back from Vietnam and told the TRUTH, he showed a kind of courage rarely seen in military veterans in those days. American troops did INDEED commit atrocities in Vietnam. Not NEARLY all of them of course, but too many. It happened way too often. They were usually ordered to do so by their superior officers. This was common knowledge to many of us who were there. At least, speaking for myself, I encountered this kind of thing nearly every day. I was a medic in a field unit. Kerry wasn't just making this stuff up. The swift boat LIARS were paid off by a buddy of Rove's in Texas to lie about Kerry and his military service. While Bush was skating by in a national guard unit whose commander can't remember ever seeing him, Kerry was dodging bullets on a swiftboat in Nam. Kerry has been an advocate for improved veterans' benefits for years. Bush has cut them to the bone. Bush sent our troops into harm's way without sufficient body armor. That's inexcusable. It's a mystery to me why so many think Bush gives a fat rat's ass about our people in the military. They are nothing more than so many pawns to him, to be used as political tools.

Mark my words: In a relatively short time, you will start hearing more and more stories that mirror the truths Kerry and others were telling about the war in Vietnam. Except this time, it will be regarding war crimes committed in Iraq. A few are already starting to come out. There will be many more later. That's because when troops are involved in a situation where they can't tell friend from foe, panic results. And in the "fog of war", the wrong people end up paying the ultimate price. That's what war is all about, and only those of us who have "been there and done that" are capable of explaining that. The rest of these cheerleading, flagwaving "chickenhawks" need to either wise up or shut up. Starting with Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

The lesson? Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That's exactly what is happening. It's clear who hasn't learned, and who hasn't "done their homework" here. As clear as a bell.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Vietvet

First, I will say that Kerry isn't much of a comedian, and jokes aren't his strong suit. As for Bush "doing better than him", I'm not so sure Bush actually LEARNED much. He certainly didn't "do his homework" regarding the unwarranted Iraq invasion, and obviously didn't learn much about world history. Otherwise, he would have known better than to try to impose a western style democracy on a people who have been fighting against and killing each other for thousands of years.Kerry had plenty of time to learn in a real world called Vietnam. He learned that war is no game to be played by armchair idealogues who don't know what they are doing.

Yes he learned very quickly how to get three booboos and took his video camera and campaign footage home to start anti-war protesting and slandering our troops. Getting involved in novels with upside down flags, cooperating with the Vietnamese officials and running around bad-mouthing with Jane Fonda. If that's your opinion of a "learned" man, then that's fine. But to others, it's just more reason to believe that his "joke" wasn't about Bush. Especially considering Bush did better in school.

Secondly, you expect Kerry to come out and apologize and "explain and humble" himself. Well, some of us are still waiting for BUSH to come out and "explain and humble" himself by admitting that he didn't know what in the Hell he was doing when he so foolishly sent our troops into harm's way. For no logical reason whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath on that. Lord knows it's WAY overdue. Kerry's remarks don't amount to a hill of beans when compared to Bush's total and inexcusable incompetance, which has cost America nearly 3,000 lives and around twenty thousand wounded.

Are you setting double standards for Bush and Kerry?

Thirdly, when Kerry came back from Vietnam and told the TRUTH, he showed a kind of courage rarely seen in military veterans in those days. American troops did INDEED commit atrocities in Vietnam. Not NEARLY all of them of course, but too many. It happened way too often. They were usually ordered to do so by their superior officers. This was common knowledge to many of us who were there. At least, speaking for myself, I encountered this kind of thing nearly every day. I was a medic in a field unit. Kerry wasn't just making this stuff up. The swift boat LIARS were paid off by a buddy of Rove's in Texas to lie about Kerry and his military service. While Bush was skating by in a national guard unit whose commander can't remember ever seeing him, Kerry was dodging bullets on a swiftboat in Nam. Kerry has been an advocate for improved veterans' benefits for years. Bush has cut them to the bone. Bush sent our troops into harm's way without sufficient body armor. That's inexcusable. It's a mystery to me why so many think Bush gives a fat rat's ass about our people in the military. They are nothing more than so many pawns to him, to be used as political tools.

He told the truth about his injuries and what he saw in Iraq? Because other people don't say so. There's a lot of talking points in here. None of it really has anything to do with what Kerry said though.

The lesson? Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That's exactly what is happening. It's clear who hasn't learned, and who hasn't "done their homework" here. As clear as a bell.

You're right we should learn from history. When you're an elected official and you claim to have misspoke and offended more than half the nation you should have some class like every other politician before you and apologize.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Yep lets debate on yet another smoke screen that takes away from real issues.

A politician who recently ran for president and possibly once again badmouthing our troops isn't a real issue? I don't think the generals in Iraq are sitting around watching Kerry clips instead of doing their duty. I haven't seen this take a minute of time on the Senate floor. This is newsworthy, just as it would be if Bush had made these statements.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by Vietvet

First, I will say that Kerry isn't much of a comedian, and jokes aren't his strong suit. As for Bush "doing better than him", I'm not so sure Bush actually LEARNED much. He certainly didn't "do his homework" regarding the unwarranted Iraq invasion, and obviously didn't learn much about world history. Otherwise, he would have known better than to try to impose a western style democracy on a people who have been fighting against and killing each other for thousands of years.Kerry had plenty of time to learn in a real world called Vietnam. He learned that war is no game to be played by armchair idealogues who don't know what they are doing.

Secondly, you expect Kerry to come out and apologize and "explain and humble" himself. Well, some of us are still waiting for BUSH to come out and "explain and humble" himself by admitting that he didn't know what in the Hell he was doing when he so foolishly sent our troops into harm's way. For no logical reason whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath on that. Lord knows it's WAY overdue. Kerry's remarks don't amount to a hill of beans when compared to Bush's total and inexcusable incompetance, which has cost America nearly 3,000 lives and around twenty thousand wounded.

Thirdly, when Kerry came back from Vietnam and told the TRUTH, he showed a kind of courage rarely seen in military veterans in those days. American troops did INDEED commit atrocities in Vietnam. Not NEARLY all of them of course, but too many. It happened way too often. They were usually ordered to do so by their superior officers. This was common knowledge to many of us who were there. At least, speaking for myself, I encountered this kind of thing nearly every day. I was a medic in a field unit. Kerry wasn't just making this stuff up. The swift boat LIARS were paid off by a buddy of Rove's in Texas to lie about Kerry and his military service. While Bush was skating by in a national guard unit whose commander can't remember ever seeing him, Kerry was dodging bullets on a swiftboat in Nam. Kerry has been an advocate for improved veterans' benefits for years. Bush has cut them to the bone. Bush sent our troops into harm's way without sufficient body armor. That's inexcusable. It's a mystery to me why so many think Bush gives a fat rat's ass about our people in the military. They are nothing more than so many pawns to him, to be used as political tools.

Mark my words: In a relatively short time, you will start hearing more and more stories that mirror the truths Kerry and others were telling about the war in Vietnam. Except this time, it will be regarding war crimes committed in Iraq. A few are already starting to come out. There will be many more later. That's because when troops are involved in a situation where they can't tell friend from foe, panic results. And in the "fog of war", the wrong people end up paying the ultimate price. That's what war is all about, and only those of us who have "been there and done that" are capable of explaining that. The rest of these cheerleading, flagwaving "chickenhawks" need to either wise up or shut up. Starting with Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

The lesson? Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. That's exactly what is happening. It's clear who hasn't learned, and who hasn't "done their homework" here. As clear as a bell.

Excellent Post,,, I wish I had Scrumtralecent's big clapping hands!!!

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by JaJae

A politician who recently ran for president and possibly once again badmouthing our troops isn't a real issue? I don't think the generals in Iraq are sitting around watching Kerry clips instead of doing their duty. I haven't seen this take a minute of time on the Senate floor. This is newsworthy, just as it would be if Bush had made these statements.

I totally disagree especially in light of the fact the remark has been taken out of context.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

I totally disagree especially in light of the fact the remark has been taken out of context.

Says Kerry.

Kerry admits he misspoke. He admits he it was a "botched" joke. Yet he attacks everyone for taking it for face value. The reality is he said it. He admits he said it. But he's offended people would take it the way he said it.

Well guess what Mr. anti-war protestor... you have a history of slandering our troops so people are going to take it at face value. He continues to have his elitist attitude of he can do no wrong.

Fuck him. He made a mistake. His words were either intentional or misspoken. In any event he needs to apologize for it.

If I were up on stage and made a racist joke to the public with a bad history on race relations and I come back and say "Oh it wasn't REALLY about race, it just came out wrong. But fuck you all for thinking I would ever say such a thing!" That shows no class. And he's going to continue getting criticized for his words and his admitted "botched joke" until he takes responsibility for the trash that comes out of his mouth.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Vietvet

Anybody with half an ounce of common sense can see that Kerry simply mis-spoke.

He read a cue-card.

a) How is that "mis-spoke"? And,
b) What does that say "for the intelligence of those" on the left who support this jackass?

[Vietvet]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yes he learned very quickly how to get three booboos and took his video camera and campaign footage home to start anti-war protesting and slandering our troops. Getting involved in novels with upside down flags, cooperating with the Vietnamese officials and running around bad-mouthing with Jane Fonda. If that's your opinion of a "learned" man, then that's fine. But to others, it's just more reason to believe that his "joke" wasn't about Bush. Especially considering Bush did better in school.


Are you setting double standards for Bush and Kerry?


He told the truth about his injuries and what he saw in Iraq? Because nobody else says so. There's a lot of talking points in here. None of it really has anything to do with what Kerry said though.


You're right we should learn from history. When you're an elected official and you claim to have misspoke and offended more than half the nation you should have some class like every other politician before you and apologize.

Typical RW reactionary response. Kerry, so far as anyone knows, never even MET Jane Fonda. She was in the same picture with him once, as I recall. Along with a few thousand others, of course, but never mind that little detail....I can tell that you are obviously not old enough to remember that era the way it actually was, so you get your "facts" from the RW press. Otherwise, you wouldn't say "nobody else says so". Bottom line is, Kerry was there while Bush was slacking off in the states snorting coke and drinking beer. Kerry wasn't "slandering our troops," he, along with the rest of VVAW, was calling attention to the reality that was taking place. Much of that reality was due to our military leaders and civilian leadership not leading properly. Lt Calley and the Mi Li massacre is a prime example. "Setting double standards for Bush and Kerry?"Hardly. Which is more deserving of an apology, sending our troops over to a craphole to be maimed and slaughtered for no reason, or an insignificant remark taken out of context? Fox reports, YOU decide! BTW, Bush isn't fit to scrape the shit off Kerry's boots. Nor is Tony Snow. Nor Hannity. Nor Rove. Nor Limbaugh. Nor Cheney. Every damned one of them are chickenhawk, sorry assed, hypocritical COWARDS. (Other than that, they're fine Americans)

[IminWonderland]

I was watching the news and finally saw the footage of what he said. And when it's said it was meant to be about the President, it totally does make sense. He was saying to study and be smart, and you won't end up in "Iraq" in making the "ending up in Iraq" part to be about making stupid decisions and getting yourself into a dead end situation. When it's seen in it's context, it makes total sense.

How come Bush gets to misspeak all the time, but Kerry can't once?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Vietvet

Typical RW reactionary response. Kerry, so far as anyone knows, never even MET Jane Fonda. She was in the same picture with him once, as I recall. Along with a few thousand others, of course, but never mind that little detail....I can tell that you are obviously not old enough to remember that era the way it actually was, so you get your "facts" from the RW press. Otherwise, you wouldn't say "nobody else says so".

I said other people don't say so. And my "facts" are the reality. Yes he was at protests with Jane Fonda and yes he did badmouth the troops. He came home and was running around anti-war protesting and badmouthing our troops with people like Jane Fonda. I never said he met her. But if I were to go to Michael Moore rallies you could say I was protesting Bush with Michael Moore. And that would be a completely factual statement. It has nothing to do with my sources of "facts." It's the reality of who John Kerry is and what he has done. He gets no pass from me just because he was anti-war in a war that I disagree with.

Bottom line is, Kerry was there while Bush was slacking off in the states snorting coke and drinking beer. Kerry wasn't "slandering our troops," he, along with the rest of VVAW, was calling attention to the reality that was taking place.

Unfortunately he was there. I say unfortunately because his presence in Vietnam only hurt the war effort and hurt our nation.

Retired Generals are now speaking out against him:

It's like being at the Battle of the Buldge and having a senator defile our troops at the Battle of the Buldge. I think it's this serious because of his history. It's not that this is a one time encounter. He goes back to 1971 when he defiled ME when I came out of Fort Torres in Vietnam and all our other people over there. So I think it's time for the American people to ask for his resignation.

John, I spent a year down in the Delta where he spent three months. And then he left his crew. He was a skipper of a boat and he left them because he had three purple hearts and two of them were self induced. I think it's absolutely dispicable that he claims he's a veteran. And particularly the way he left Vietnam and came back and deflamed all of us. He was absolutely terrible in what he said about the American troops over there and what we were trying to do.

This isn't made up information and my point of view certainly isn't rare. I'm not asking for his resignation. I'm just asking for him to show some respect to our troops. These people have the full story. They're not jumping to conclusions and accusing Kerry of things he didn't say because of some vast right wing media conspiracy. The fact is he did say them. Just like the things he has said in the past. His behavior in Vietnam and his attitude coming home has an effect on the way people perceive him. He needs to be aware of that when he starts botching jokes and get off his high horse.

Which is more deserving of an apology, sending our troops over to a craphole to be maimed and slaughtered for no reason, or an insignificant remark taken out of context? Fox reports, YOU decide! BTW, Bush isn't fit to scrape the shit off Kerry's boots. Nor is Tony Snow. Nor Hannity. Nor Rove. Nor Limbaugh. Nor Cheney. Every damned one of them are chickenhawk, sorry assed, hypocritical COWARDS. (Other than that, they're fine Americans)

You served your country. For that I'm grateful. But this attitude is a bit much. They are politicians or political speakers. You don't have to serve your country to be a politician in this country. And you certainly don't have to be a politician to speak of politicians negatively. There is FAR more anti-Iraq rhetoric going around by people who have never served. Nobody throws it in their face. Why is it that people throw a stigma out there when it comes to John Kerry? Can't talk negatively about him. But you can talk negatively about anybody involved in the Iraq war as long as it proves your liberal agenda. Attack the generals. Attack the officers. Call our soldiers guilty of war crimes before investigations. Whatever it takes to promote a liberal agenda and anti-Iraq war policy. But Kerry is the golden child who is off limits from criticism despite his 35 year history of "deflaming" our troops.

And again this has nothing to do with veterans or the Limbaugh, Cheney, Rove, Hannity, et al. It has nothing to do with chickenhawks. People from ALL political affiliations and military backgrounds are speaking out against our military and Kerry. People defending Kerry can't hide behind this rhetoric.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Awesome! Well, now I hope everyone who supports the military votes Republican in the midterm, since we now see the Dems' true colors. Never mind the total inept war planning which is throwing soldiers in the meat grinder of Iraq every day for a cause which most people realize was a total waste.

I love politics!

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Awesome! Well, now I hope everyone who supports the military votes Republican in the midterm, since we now see the Dems' true colors. Never mind the total inept war planning which is throwing soldiers in the meat grinder of Iraq every day for a cause which most people realize was a total waste.

I love politics!

Nobody is telling you who to vote for. But if you're from Mass. I would hope you remember this and the way he conducted himself (whether you agree with it or not) when you go into the poll the next time he's up for reelection.

[Vietvet]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I said other people don't say so. And my "facts" are the reality. Yes he was at protests with Jane Fonda and yes he did badmouth the troops. He came home and was running around anti-war protesting and badmouthing our troops with people like Jane Fonda. I never said he met her. But if I were to go to Michael Moore rallies you could say I was protesting Bush with Michael Moore. And that would be a completely factual statement. It has nothing to do with my sources of "facts." It's the reality of who John Kerry is and what he has done. He gets no pass from me just because he was anti-war in a war that I disagree with.


Unfortunately he was there. I say unfortunately because his presence in Vietnam only hurt the war effort and hurt our nation.

Retired Generals are now speaking out against him:

This isn't made up information and my point of view certainly isn't rare. I'm not asking for his resignation. I'm just asking for him to show some respect to our troops. These people have the full story. They're not jumping to conclusions and accusing Kerry of things he didn't say because of some vast right wing media conspiracy. The fact is he did say them. Just like the things he has said in the past. His behavior in Vietnam and his attitude coming home has an effect on the way people perceive him. He needs to be aware of that when he starts botching jokes and get off his high horse.


You served your country. For that I'm grateful. But this attitude is a bit much. They are politicians or political speakers. You don't have to serve your country to be a politician in this country. And you certainly don't have to be a politician to speak of politicians negatively. There is FAR more anti-Iraq rhetoric going around by people who have never served. Nobody throws it in their face. Why is it that people throw a stigma out there when it comes to John Kerry? Can't talk negatively about him. But you can talk negatively about anybody involved in the Iraq war as long as it proves your liberal agenda. Attack the generals. Attack the officers. Call our soldiers guilty of war crimes before investigations. Whatever it takes to promote a liberal agenda and anti-Iraq war policy. But Kerry is the golden child who is off limits from criticism despite his 35 year history of "deflaming" our troops.

And again this has nothing to do with veterans or the Limbaugh, Cheney, Rove, Hannity, et al. It has nothing to do with chickenhawks. People from ALL political affiliations and military backgrounds are speaking out against our military and Kerry. People defending Kerry can't hide behind this rhetoric.

Well, there's not much sense in trying to rebut every single thing you are saying.We can toss names out all day long. BTW, I have no "liberal agenda." Sure, there are retired generals who can't stand Kerry. There are also retired generals who don't have much use for Bush or Rumsfeld. You may have heard about them recently. You know, the ones who are clammering for Rumsfeld to be fired??


The only ones who really knew Kerry as a leader were the men who served WITH him under his command. All but one of them campaigned with him during the '04 campaign. These guys knew what kind of leader he was. You might try reading Douglas Brinkley's book, "Tour Of Duty" if you really want to get a "fair and balanced" account of what Kerry's all about. But, I've got a hunch you'll be depending on FOX and Rush for your "facts."I wouldn't want to inconvenience you with too many facts you don't want to know. But here's just one: Kerry used to like flying his small plane under bridges for sport. I'd like to see Bush try that, maybe he'd run INTO the damned thing, idiot that he is.

[7960]

[nbiggershaft]

When I first heard this quote I assumed he was referring to the administration being stuck in Iraq. The kind of shot he usually takes at Bush. Was there anything indicating he was referring to soldiers?

[Vietvet]

Originally Posted by 7960

He read a cue-card.

a) How is that "mis-spoke"? And,
b) What does that say "for the intelligence of those" on the left who support this jackass?

A Hell of a lot more than it does than for the intelligence of those on the far right wing-nut goofy fringe, who support an imbecile who has a hard time even reading "My Pet Goat..." (He learnt how t spell NUkuler on the Google, ya know...)

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Vietvet

A Hell of a lot more than it does than for the intelligence of those on the far right wing-nut goofy fringe, who support an imbecile who has a hard time even reading "My Pet Goat..." (He learnt how t spell NUkuler on the Google, ya know...)

Why is it that every time a Democrat is caught in a scandal somehow Bush gets insulted and the focus is shifted from the issue?

[lew]

Originally Posted by 7960