McCain responds to John Kerry's anti-military statements

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by John Kerry

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

YouTube Video

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Audio: John Kerry on America’s lazy, uneducated military; Update: McCain demands apology

Kerry defends his words from Tony Snow's response (below):

Originally Posted by John Kerry

“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have…

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men…”

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Kerry responds to right-wing chickenhawk “nut-jobs”

John McCain is NOT amused:

Originally Posted by John McCain

Senator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country’s call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.

They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn’t live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks.

John McCain's camp responds to McCain:

Originally Posted by David Wade - Kerry Aide

"When will John McCain ask his new Republican best friends George Bush and Dick Cheney to apologize for misleading America into war and giving us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it? John McCain's neoconservative pals are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor."

Wesley Clark responds:

Originally Posted by Retired General Wesley Clark

"I can not explain anything John Kerry said," retired Gen. Wesley Clark said Tuesday, adding that he's spoken to military leaders about the next troop rotation coming. "They tell me the troops are ready. The families are ready back here. They know what they're facing. It's the best army we've ever had."

Tony Snow response:

Originally Posted by Tony Snow

"The clear implication here is, if you flunk out, if you don't study hard, if you don't do your homework, if you don't make an effort to be smart, and you don't do well you, quote, 'Get stuck in Iraq,'" Snow said.

Bush responds:
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Bush rips Kerry for comments about troops

Originally Posted by George Bush

[Bush recites Kerry quote followed by boos from the audience]
The Senator's suggestion that the men and women of our military are somehow uneducated is insulting and it is shameful. [applause]
The members of the United States military are plenty smart. And they are plenty brave. And the Senator from Massachusetts's owes an apology.
[applause]

McCain is NOT amused with Kerry's pathetic defense. Yet another response from McCain

Originally Posted by John McCain

You can’t make this up. His statement, basically, was so demeaning to the men and women who are serving in the military that you will be even more grateful than you are at this moment that George Bush is president of the United States…

You can’t make this up. His statement was that if you get an education and you do well, then you don’t have to go to Iraq, and if you don’t have an education, then you have to go to Iraq. Do you know how demeaning that is to the men and women who are serving so magnificently in the cause of freedom and are fighting and dying in Iraq today? As I said, you can’t make it up.

Retired General Calls for his resignation.
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Retired Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney calls for Kerry’s resignation

It's like being at the Battle of the Buldge and having a senator defile our troops at the Battle of the Buldge. I think it's this serious because of his history. It's not that this is a one time encounter. He goes back to 1971 when he defiled ME when I came out of Fort Torres in Vietnam and all our other people over there. So I think it's time for the American people to ask for his resignation.

John, I spent a year down in the Delta where he spent three months. And then he left his crew. He was a skipper of a boat and he left them because he had three purple hearts and two of them were self induced. I think it's absolutely dispicable that he claims he's a veteran. And particularly the way he left Vietnam and came back and deflamed all of us. He was absolutely terrible in what he said about the American troops over there and what we were trying to do.

[Scrum]

I think Kerry was spot on. He made a point and didn't insult soldiers.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I think Kerry was spot on. He made a point and didn't insult soldiers.

I concur.

[ballz2wallz]

I'd have to say Kerry was way off. There are far too many examples of people like Pat Tilman who choose to go to fight for their country, not because they are lazy and uneducated.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'd have to say Kerry was way off. There are far too many examples of people like Pat Tilman who choose to go to fight for their country, not because they are lazy and uneducated.

Those people are in the vast minority.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Those people are in the vast minority.

In 1995, the average black enlistee scored at the 59th percentile on the AFTQ (the test used in the Bell Curve), compared to the 14th percentile for non-military black youths. The average white enlistee score at about the 81st percentile, compared to the 61st percentile for the average white young person. I suspect that the stronger economy of recent years drove down those impressive numbers as kids that smart found they could make money in the civilian economy.

Not true. Most people in the military are also hard-working, they're trying to get their foot in the door to a successful future and college education. They're proactive people who care about their future. And are willing to make sacrifices to ensure it.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Not true.

I'm not saying that they are stupid. I am saying that they join for lack of other opportunities. They are poor, and as a result they are not well educated. They join up often times because it's the only way that they can pay for school of some kind. Also it's a good way to get some experience. People with the means will generally pay for a university education on thier own, rather than put thier lives at risk to pay for it.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I'm not saying that they are stupid. I am saying that they join for lack of other opportunities. They are poor, and as a result they are not well educated. They join up often times because it's the only way that they can pay for school of some kind. Also it's a good way to get some experience. People with the means will generally pay for a university education on thier own, rather than put thier lives at risk to pay for it.

John Kerry didn't say lack of opportunities. He said "if you don't do well in school and you don't study, you end up in Iraq."

These are people who had opportunities. They were already in school. He's saying if you're too lazy and stupid to make it through college, you end up in the military.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

]He's saying if you're too lazy and stupid to make it through college, you end up in the military.

No he isn't saying that at all. He's saying if you don't work hard, your options are going to be limited to the point that going overseas and dying in a war is as good of a future as you should expect.

I know this won't change your mind on what he said, since you have already formed your opinion, but it's true.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

John Kerry didn't say lack of opportunities. He said "if you don't do well in school and you don't study, you end up in Iraq."

These are people who had opportunities. They were already in school. He's saying if you're too lazy and stupid to make it through college, you end up in the military.

Your bias gives it that slant. But, to others, he was making a point about the actual options of the average Joe at Pasadena Community College.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Your bias gives it that slant. But, to others, he was making a point about the actual options of the average Joe at Pasadena Community College.

The actual options of the people studying at the community college is don't be lazy and pass your community college classes or you'll be in the military?

I find that hard to believe considering the median household income in Pasadena is 10% higher than in the average US household. Perhaps you wish it to be true?
Pasadena, California (CA) ZIP codes, demographics, schools, income info and more

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by JaJae

John Kerry didn't say lack of opportunities. He said "if you don't do well in school and you don't study, you end up in Iraq."

These are people who had opportunities. They were already in school. He's saying if you're too lazy and stupid to make it through college, you end up in the military.

I don't like generalilzations because they are pretty much always wrong. But I would hazard a guess that some people do join for that reason. I can't hazard a guess as to how many "some" is.
People join for alot of reasons.

[DosEquis]

He used a shitty choice of words that have more than one way of interpretation. It was part of his downfall as a candidate. I truly believe his intentions were aimed at saying your only option is to go fight in Iraq if you don't work hard and study.

That is about as far as I would defend it, and I think he should have started his explaination from the other thread with an apology first before going on his rant.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The actual options of the people studying at the community college is don't be lazy and pass your community college classes or you'll be in the military?

I find that hard to believe considering the median household income in Pasadena is 10% higher than in the average US household. Perhaps you wish it to be true?

The people going to community College in California, are seriously, the poorest students. If they had money, most would be in the Cal States or the UC's.

And his point is, is to get that time honored "AMERICAN DREAM", get through school, or the alternate means to get it is the military, but it can cost you dearly too.

And the income in Pasadena might be higher, but most people going to PCC aren't residents of Pasadena.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I don't like generalilzations because they are pretty much always wrong. But I would hazard a guess that some people do join for that reason. I can't hazard a guess as to how many "some" is.
People join for alot of reasons.

I'm sure some also join because they're die hard conservatives and want to make a difference. But saying hold a job or you'll end up being a sheep the Republican party would also be wrong.

People join the military for all reasons. But to classify it and generalize the way he did was wrong. Especially with such a strong negative undertone about their character.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

The people going to community College in California, are seriously, the poorest students. If they had money, most would be in the Cal States or the UC's.

And his point is, is to get that time honored "AMERICAN DREAM", get through school, or the alternate means to get it is the military, but it can cost you dearly too.

And the income in Pasadena might be higher, but most people going to PCC aren't residents of Pasadena.

That's how it is in all community colleges in all 50 states. That's the point of community college. I went to community college. That doesn't mean they don't have opportunities. There's a reason community colleges are so popular. It doesn't mean they'll be in the military if they're lazy or that they're underprivileged.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I'm sure some also join because they're die hard conservatives and want to make a difference. But saying hold a job or you'll end up being a sheep the Republican party would also be wrong.

People join the military for all reasons. But to classify it and generalize the way he did was wrong. Especially with such a strong negative undertone about their character.

Yeah I agree that it was stupid for him to say something like that. I don't know what he was trying to proove.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I think Kerry was spot on. He made a point and didn't insult soldiers.

I think McCain was spot on and of course Kerry insulted our soldiers when he said if you're lazy and don't do well in school you end up in the military.