clone labs coming to a state near you

AVengeance · 10-31-2006, 02:43 PM

Artificial Wombs & Abortion

While the battle rages over "stem cell research", it is easy to overlook the real reason for trying to etch cloning into the Missouri state constitution. Oh, make no mistake, Amendment 2 does NOT ban cloning. What it does is wrongly narrowly define what cloning IS for the sake of argument, saying in order for it to be called cloning, the clone must be implanted in a womb. Now, it seems, technology exists and is being improved to offer an artificial womb. This gets around that annoying rule, and they can make full-term clones in a device that resembles the bacta tanks in Star Wars.

Make no mistake, people, the cloners will get their way, they will make their clone army, and we're going to have to submit to their rule. Bwaahahahaha!!

Or it could be nothing.

7960 · 10-31-2006, 06:08 PM

It's not "life", it won't be implanted, it'll never be a baby. If this means we'll be able to grow a liver or kidney or lung in a beaker, I'm all for it.

British scientists grow human liver in a laboratory | the Daily Mail

AVengeance · 11-01-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

It's not "life", it won't be implanted, it'll never be a baby. If this means we'll be able to grow a liver or kidney or lung in a beaker, I'm all for it.

British scientists grow human liver in a laboratory | the Daily Mail

Cool!

Described as a 'Eureka moment' by the Newcastle University researchers, the tissue was created from blood taken from babies' umbilical cords just a few minutes after birth.

Notice how they were able to use cord blood to get the stem cells? No need to grow a baby and kill it.

I wonder if there are companies that will take cord blood and freeze it for future use? Seems like that would be a growing market, with the recent advances in stem cell research. Basically, mom & dad buy a sort-of lockbox in a big freezer, and they have their babies cord blood put in it. Then, if the child ever needs it (damaged organ, spinal cord injury, etc.), you'd have his own stem cells to use to grow a perfectly compatible organ or part.

In the link I posted, this artificial womb was used for more than growing an organ- it was used for growing a whole person.

7960 · 11-01-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by AVengeance

Notice how they were able to use cord blood to get the stem cells? No need to grow a baby and kill it.

No plan has ever included "growing a baby and kill(ing) it" but we enjoy the radical, sensationalist nature of your post.

I wonder if there are companies that will take cord blood and freeze it for future use?

There already are. We got a form when our first was born in '99 asking if we (a) wanted the cord frozen (for a monthly fee) or (b) consent to donating it.

In the link I posted, this artificial womb was used for more than growing an organ- it was used for growing a whole person.

Cool! Hopefully it'll help women who can't carry a baby on their own.

AVengeance · 11-01-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

No plan has ever included "growing a baby and kill(ing) it" but we enjoy the radical, sensationalist nature of your post.

Oh, sorry, I meant grow a FETUS and TERMINATE it, which is being done now. Of course, it's called fetus and terminate unless a politician murders his pregnant wife in California

, at which time it's a baby and murder.

There already are. We got a form when our first was born in '99 asking if we (a) wanted the cord frozen (for a monthly fee) or (b) consent to donating it.
Cool! Hopefully it'll help women who can't carry a baby on their own.

I don't remember seeing a form like that, but my last kid was born in '99. I wonder how much the fee would be now, or if it would be possible to get into that business? Could be pretty lucrative with all the promises made of stem cell proponents.

Here's a new paradox: it's called "murder" and "baby" unless the mother is exercising her "choice" to terminate it, right? What if the child has no mother? A clone fetus grown in a lab, is what, just "tissue" ? What about when it's no longer in the artificial womb? It was never in a womb, and it was never "born", so does that mean it's not alive? Not human? Does not deserve rights? Following Gods law, we would have a consistant answer for these questions. Following man's law, a baby fashioned in a laboratory is simply a piece of meat, to be experimented with and discarded at will. If you think domestic terrorism is a problem now, wait 'till this breaks the headlines.

7960 · 11-01-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by AVengeance

Oh, sorry, I meant grow a FETUS and TERMINATE it, which is being done now.

No, it's not.

I don't remember seeing a form like that, but my last kid was born in '99. I wonder how much the fee would be now, or if it would be possible to get into that business? Could be pretty lucrative with all the promises made of stem cell proponents.

I don't know...I wonder what the insurance would be on this. You'd need 2x equipment in case of failure, 2x backup power, the facilities would have to be able to withstand a lot of shit ........ I can't even think of all the stuff you'd have to anticipate. Because the first time someone says "we need our cord blood" and you have to say "sorry, it melted in the power outage last summer" and the kid dies, you're totally fucked.

Here's a new paradox: it's called "murder" and "baby" unless the mother is exercising her "choice" to terminate it, right?

Wrong, but go on.

What if the child has no mother? A clone fetus grown in a lab, is what, just "tissue" ? What about when it's no longer in the artificial womb? It was never in a womb, and it was never "born", so does that mean it's not alive?

No "baby" is considered "alive" until it's no longer hooked up to the mother.

Not human? Does not deserve rights?

If not human, what? And I'd guess it deserves the same rights as any other fetus.

Following Gods law,

Why follow "god's law"?

we would have a consistant answer for these questions. Following man's law, a baby fashioned in a laboratory is simply a piece of meat,...

"Man's law" doesn't allow that now so why would an artificial womb change things?

You keep beating around the bush that scientists are "growing babies and killing them" for research *today*. Please show me where that's happening.

Scrum · 11-01-2006, 05:14 PM

I, for one, welcome our new clone overlords.

AVengeance · 11-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

No, it's not.
...You keep beating around the bush that scientists are "growing babies and killing them" for research *today*. Please show me where that's happening.

Science fiction? A bit, perhaps, but scientists are already making strides in this direction. Researchers at Cornell University's Weill Medical College in New York were able to take samples of women's uterine tissue and get the cells to regenerate in a laboratory. Human embryos successfully attached themselves to the engineered womb and began to grow; the experiment was stopped after a few days only because of in-vitro fertilisation (IVF) regulations. Japanese gynecology professor Yoshinori Kuwabara has created a completely artificial womb which sustained goat fetuses for several weeks.

Bioethics - Artificial Wombs: The End of Natural Motherhood?

The headlines sound like they are straight out of a science-fiction novel. “Scientists have developed an artificial womb that permits embryos to grow outside the body.” Reporters go on to predict: “Within a generation, there will probably be mass use of artificial wombs to grow babies.” Researchers at Cornell University’s Weill Medical College recently announced that, for the first time, they had succeeded in creating an artificial womb lining. Using cells taken from the uterus, along with a cocktail of drugs and hormones, researchers constructed a lab-made womb. They then took “left-over” embryos from in vitro fertilization procedures and placed them into the laboratory-engineered tissue. The embryos reportedly attached to the walls of this prototype womb and began to settle there.

Apologetics Press - In the News: Artificial Womb?

Dumpy Dooby · 11-06-2006, 11:04 PM

I see nothing wrong with cloning. I think that people that find it to be unethical have watched too many science fiction movies. Identical twins more closely resemble each other than clones.