The education system needs RESPONSIBILITY not more money...

[6SpeedTA95]

I was talking with a friend of mine last night about school. He's working on his undergrad and I'm working on my grad level stuff and we were discussing education and we both agreed that your education is only worth what you put into it.

This is true at all levels of education, by reintroducing parents and kids to the concept of responsibility for yourself and your children we can do more good for the education system than can all the monies in the country. That doesn't mean we need to "underfund" education but its hardly underfunded and there's plenty of schools making progress. A school in tennessee has had test scores and learning make a 180* turn around after new school policies were implemented...this is happening a lot of places throughout the country. Money does not always solve problems, we need RESPONSIBILITY!

[motivez]

What you say is partially true, IMO.

Certain areas don't need more funding, they need parents willing to take responsibility for their children's education and who will care enough to make sure their child is able to use the resources that are available to the fullest extent, because you're right.. you get out what you put in.

That said, part of the issue for me, in terms of funding anyway, is the disparity between certain districts based on the income of that district.

I personally believe that as long as the Government is going to be involved in schooling (which I'm for for obvious reasons, to me anyway) equal funding for schools is an important thing because without providing the same quality education to every child in the country, you'll wind up creating a permanent underclass who has no real way out of it for most of them.

I know that's a method of wealth redistribution, but I think education is one area where it's important enough that there's not a huge disparity between wealthy and poor children in terms of quality of the school itself.

If one school can afford all new books, all new computers, the latest software and editions, and tons of resources, that's great for those kids.

But if there's another school 20 miles away on the "other side of the track" that's using computers from 1998, old books, not enough of them for all the students, etc, etc.. many of those students are being set up to fail..

I'm also for national standards as far as testing and credits go. I've seen first hand how badly moving from one state to another can go if their public schooling system is set up to be vastly different credit wise.. and I don't think any kid should have to deal with the level of bullshit I went through in that respect.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Money does not always solve problems, we need RESPONSIBILITY!

The current educational system has the mentality of throwing more money at education to solve problems. This has shown to be fairly ineffectual. Responsibility starts with the teachers and administration.

Teachers unions need to be dismantled and tenure needs to be removed.

The teaching market is being flooded. Teachers make a livable income on 9 months a year with excellent benefits. The teaching job is extremely sought after for it's pay, working hours and benefits.

My sister-in-law just graduated from Rutgers with a masters degree and has been subbing for 2 years. Nobody will hire her. She can't find work because the market is flooded. Bad teachers have tenure and are eating up our tax dollars making upwards of $60 a year. And when she goes on an interview she's competing with dozens of other people who are looking for the same position.

The job is too entriging. When I was an education major the vast majority of people in the program outright admitted it was because the job was easy, the hours were insane and the pay/benefits was livable. These people are flooding the market and hurting the good teachers. It's preventing good people from going into the field and hurting their wages.

Only when teachers are succombed to capitalistic pressures and the unions/tenure is removed can the good teachers finally make a decent living. Otherwise the market will continue to be flooded with bad teachers and teachers stuck into tenure contracts wasting our tax dollars and not properly educating our children.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The current educational system has the mentality of throwing more money at education to solve problems. This has shown to be fairly ineffectual. Responsibility starts with the teachers and administration.

Teachers unions need to be dismantled and tenure needs to be removed.

The teaching market is being flooded. Teachers make a livable income on 9 months a year with excellent benefits. The teaching job is extremely sought after for it's pay, working hours and benefits.

My sister-in-law just graduated from Rutgers with a masters degree and has been subbing for 2 years. Nobody will hire her. She can't find work because the market is flooded. Bad teachers have tenure and are eating up our tax dollars making upwards of $60 a year. And when she goes on an interview she's competing with dozens of other people who are looking for the same position.

The job is too entriging. When I was an education major the vast majority of people in the program outright admitted it was because the job was easy, the hours were insane and the pay/benefits was livable. These people are flooding the market and hurting the good teachers. It's preventing good people from going into the field and hurting their wages.

Only when teachers are succombed to capitalistic pressures and the unions/tenure is removed can the good teachers finally make a decent living. Otherwise the market will continue to be flooded with bad teachers and teachers stuck into tenure contracts wasting our tax dollars and not properly educating our children.

I disagree, responsibility starts with the parents...parents can't push parental duties off on teachers which happens all to often in todays education system.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I disagree, responsibility starts with the parents...parents can't push parental duties off on teachers which happens all to often in todays education system.

I agree with the rest of your post.

We can't control parents. But we can control our educational system and the quality of teachers who help engage parents.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by JaJae

We can't control parents. But we can control our educational system and the quality of teachers who help engage parents.

you're right we can, but when parents hold teachers accountable for their kids homework how do you fix that? You put some emphasis back on parental and individual responsibility. Get parents involved. A NY school requires parents to stay in the auditorium when students are late. This forces parents to be responsible and I bet late arrivals drop significantly with this policy.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

What you say is partially true, IMO.

Certain areas don't need more funding, they need parents willing to take responsibility for their children's education and who will care enough to make sure their child is able to use the resources that are available to the fullest extent, because you're right.. you get out what you put in.

That said, part of the issue for me, in terms of funding anyway, is the disparity between certain districts based on the income of that district.

I personally believe that as long as the Government is going to be involved in schooling (which I'm for for obvious reasons, to me anyway) equal funding for schools is an important thing because without providing the same quality education to every child in the country, you'll wind up creating a permanent underclass who has no real way out of it for most of them.

I know that's a method of wealth redistribution, but I think education is one area where it's important enough that there's not a huge disparity between wealthy and poor children in terms of quality of the school itself.

If one school can afford all new books, all new computers, the latest software and editions, and tons of resources, that's great for those kids.

But if there's another school 20 miles away on the "other side of the track" that's using computers from 1998, old books, not enough of them for all the students, etc, etc.. many of those students are being set up to fail..

I'm also for national standards as far as testing and credits go. I've seen first hand how badly moving from one state to another can go if their public schooling system is set up to be vastly different credit wise.. and I don't think any kid should have to deal with the level of bullshit I went through in that respect.

Good post man, I'm gonna have to bump your rep on this one...

I dont agree with everything but you're right we need equal funding per capita for all schools regardless of demographics and income levels. Afterall if the rich parents want to DONATE extra out of their pocket to improve their schools then I say go for it, but this arbitrarily funding schools at a higher rate because of their location does nothing but hurt innercity schools.

[7960]

My district spent $4,600/kid. The neighboring district spent well over $7,000. Their kids were not 76% smarter, they didn't send 76% more kids to collage, their schools weren't 76% "nicer", their teachers weren't 76% "better", their teams didn't win 76% more often.

There is a minimum required to educate kids (books, supplies, facilities, etc) and often spending significantly more than that detracts from education.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

My district spent $4,600/kid. The neighboring district spent well over $7,000. Their kids were not 76% smarter, they didn't send 76% more kids to collage, their schools weren't 76% "nicer", their teachers weren't 76% "better", their teams didn't win 76% more often.

There is a minimum required to educate kids (books, supplies, facilities, etc) and often spending significantly more than that detracts from education.

You're exactly right, which is why I hate the crap throwing contest that results from a cut in the education budget. I know several people at school system adinistration levels and they all think throwing money at the systems dont fix them. Also an interesting note one person that is an administrator at a rather wealthy district thinks its totally unfair how much more money they get per student than poorer districts. I beleive her because her district used to be poor but the metro area rapidly expanded and they went from 2a to 6a in 7 years

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I disagree, responsibility starts with the parents...parents can't push parental duties off on teachers which happens all to often in todays education system.

I agree with the rest of your post.

I so agree with this....

This should be a requirement! Too often school becomes nothing more than an extension of daycare. Teachers are their to educate and not babysit. Ask any teacher and they will tell you that the students whose parents are actively are the better achievers. You will still need to fund it, but your funding becomes more productive. Start here and everything else will fall in line.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I was talking with a friend of mine last night about school. He's working on his undergrad and I'm working on my grad level stuff and we were discussing education and we both agreed that your education is only worth what you put into it.

This is true at all levels of education, by reintroducing parents and kids to the concept of responsibility for yourself and your children we can do more good for the education system than can all the monies in the country. That doesn't mean we need to "underfund" education but its hardly underfunded and there's plenty of schools making progress. A school in tennessee has had test scores and learning make a 180* turn around after new school policies were implemented...this is happening a lot of places throughout the country. Money does not always solve problems, we need RESPONSIBILITY!

What kind of new policies??

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by JaJae

We can't control parents. But we can control our educational system and the quality of teachers who help engage parents.

Parents should be required to be part of the educational system, it wont no work without them.

Its called parenting.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Good post man, I'm gonna have to bump your rep on this one...

I dont agree with everything but you're right we need equal funding per capita for all schools regardless of demographics and income levels. Afterall if the rich parents want to DONATE extra out of their pocket to improve their schools then I say go for it, but this arbitrarily funding schools at a higher rate because of their location does nothing but hurt innercity schools.

And our Nation.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Parents should be required to be part of the educational system, it wont no work without them.

Its called parenting.

Yes, but we can't control other parents with our tax dollars. All we can do is control the people who run the schools and try to get people in charge with the proper mindset.

Unfortunately if a parent doesn't want to be involved, that's their right. As long as they drop their kid off each day.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yes, but we can't control other parents with our tax dollars. All we can do is control the people who run the schools and try to get people in charge with the proper mindset.

Unfortunately if a parent doesn't want to be involved, that's their right. As long as they drop their kid off each day.

If they are using a public school system to educate their child, they damn well CAN follow the rules?? I believe that a government funded institution has a right to lay out a program that includes parents. School is NOT a daycare center. Teachers are NOT their to raise your children, they are their to educate. Cut out alot of the bullshit that occurs in school and you will find there is a little more money to go around.

A parent is responsible for every aspect of a persons upbringing.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Parents should be required to be part of the educational system, it wont no work without them.

Its called parenting.

Thats correct.

[7960]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

If they are using a public school system to educate their child, they damn well CAN follow the rules?? I believe that a government funded institution has a right to lay out a program that includes parents. School is NOT a daycare center. Teachers are NOT their to raise your children, they are their to educate. Cut out alot of the bullshit that occurs in school and you will find there is a little more money to go around.

A parent is responsible for every aspect of a persons upbringing.

It's very easy to make a rule saying "parents to help their child with 1hr of homework every night" but it's another to actually do something about it. While I agree with your concept, I disagree that it could ever work. See, public schools have one weakness that private schools don't... they have to take every kid. They can't decide to kick a kid out because his dad isn't helping him with math. They can't tell Johnny to go home because his mom didn't read to him. And since we're all better off if everyone is educated, kicking kids out because their parents are pieces of shit isn't going to help anything.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

It's very easy to make a rule saying "parents to help their child with 1hr of homework every night" but it's another to actually do something about it. While I agree with your concept, I disagree that it could ever work. See, public schools have one weakness that private schools don't... they have to take every kid. They can't decide to kick a kid out because his dad isn't helping him with math. They can't tell Johnny to go home because his mom didn't read to him. And since we're all better off if everyone is educated, kicking kids out because their parents are pieces of shit isn't going to help anything.

You're right but this relaxed grading policy that is firmly taking hold in thousands of schools across the country is just exacerbating the problem. If parents would quit bitching at teachers and schools for students getting poor grades and if school systems would quit caving to the pressure either the kids would get some help from parents or the kids would fail. When push comes to shove I think most parents would help their kids.