Judge blocks town's illegal immigration law

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Why do we have to prove that people who are already criminals are even BIGGER criminals when they get here to justify their removal?

They have already broken a serious law, what more do they have to do to justify removing them?

Because if you're going to burden all sorts of businesses and threaten people's livelihoods with all these complicated new regulations, you have to show the harm the regulations will prevent is severe enough to justify the burden. We wouldn't even be talking about the harm immigrants cause if this were just a simple matter of enforcing preexisting federal immigration laws.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Because if you're going to burden all sorts of businesses and threaten people's livelihoods with all these complicated new regulations, you have to show the harm the regulations will prevent is severe enough to justify the burden. We wouldn't even be talking about the harm immigrants cause if this were just a simple matter of enforcing preexisting federal immigration laws.

wait.....

I should feel sorry for businesses because THEY hired ILLEGAL Immigrants when it's against the law to do so? I should feel sorry that they will loose their cheap labor? Because it's "complicated"? It's not complicated. It's very simple to check someone's legal status, and they don't do it because it's easier to get away with hiring someone and paying them in dirt and tortillas.

Threaten people's livlihoods? What about the Americans whose lives, culture, and THEIR livlihoods who have been affected by this for the past 20 years? Why do we have to wait for PA to look like East LA? And if you don't know what East LA or Santa Ana looks like...it looks like shit in most of those areas. We have to wait for it to get that bad? To have that many gangs? For the schools to be piss excuses? For the hostpitals to shut down? For sewers being over flooded because Illegal Immigrants cram 50 people into a Single Family Home? Why do they have to wait for their town to go into shit before they can do something about it?

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

wait.....

I should feel sorry for businesses because THEY hired ILLEGAL Immigrants when it's against the law to do so? I should feel sorry that they will loose their cheap labor? Because it's "complicated"? It's not complicated. It's very simple to check someone's legal status, and they don't do it because it's easier to get away with hiring someone and paying them in dirt and tortillas.

Threaten people's livelihoods? What about the Americans whose lives, culture, and THEIR livlihoods who have been affected by this for the past 20 years? Why do we have to wait for PA to look like East LA? And if you don't know what East LA or Santa Ana looks like...it looks like shit in most of those areas. We have to wait for it to get that bad? To have that many gangs? For the schools to be piss excuses? For the hostpitals to shut down? For sewers being over flooded because Illegal Immigrants cram 50 people into a Single Family Home? Why do they have to wait for their town to go into shit before they can do something about it?

25% of the entire town is composed of illegals, so says the article. That's plenty large enough of a population to demonstrate the negative consequences you speak of, if in fact they exist. Either the city's lawyers are lazy bums who didn't bother to show that evidence or the harm you speak of does not exist. And although you may find it odd that you have to explain the harm, the city's lawyers surely knew they'd have to do it. IMO, the fact that they didn't indicates they couldn't.

But anyway, this seems pretty harsh:

The law, which had been scheduled to take effect Wednesday, would fine landlords found to be renting space to illegal aliens, close down businesses that hire them, and allow legal employees to sue the businesses for employment lost during such a shutdown. A related law also establishes English as the town's official language.

Evicting people from their homes and closing down businesses seems wrought with procedural due process problems. These aren't things that should be done haphazardly. It seems perfectly reasonable to freeze the entire process until everything is sorted out. This has nothing to do with whether you should feel "sorry" or whatever. It's about not throwing people out on the street and ruining businesses because of a possibly overzealous law. These laws affect more than illegals, and although you seem to hate them, even illegals have rights that need to be considered.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Why do we have to prove that people who are already criminals are even BIGGER criminals when they get here to justify their removal?

They have already broken a serious law, what more do they have to do to justify removing them?

Some people seem to always forget about this.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

25% of the entire town is composed of illegals, so says the article. That's plenty large enough of a population to demonstrate the negative consequences you speak of, if in fact they exist. Either the city's lawyers are lazy bums who didn't bother to show that evidence or the harm you speak of does not exist. And although you may find it odd that you have to explain the harm, the city's lawyers surely knew they'd have to do it. IMO, the fact that they didn't indicates they couldn't.

But anyway, this seems pretty harsh:



Evicting people from their homes and closing down businesses seems wrought with procedural due process problems. These aren't things that should be done haphazardly. It seems perfectly reasonable to freeze the entire process until everything is sorted out. This has nothing to do with whether you should feel "sorry" or whatever. It's about not throwing people out on the street and ruining businesses because of a possibly overzealous law. These laws affect more than illegals, and although you seem to hate them, even illegals have rights that need to be considered.

No illegals don't have rights in this country. If there is a right that they have, it's to be arrested, and deported back to their home country where they can enjoy the rights if where they came from.

These people are already criminals no matter how you slice it.

And there is nothing to "sort" out. They should have not come here, shouldn't have gained employment, shouldn't have made a residence, if they weren't legally here to do so.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

No illegals don't have rights in this country. If there is a right that they have, it's to be arrested, and deported back to their home country where they can enjoy the rights if where they came from.

These people are already criminals no matter how you slice it.

And there is nothing to "sort" out. They should have not come here, shouldn't have gained employment, shouldn't have made a residence, if they weren't legally here to do so.

Illegals do have varying rights in this country. I know you hate the idea, but our civilized country treats "illegals" as human beings, not some lower life form that is so popular to designate them with...

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Illegals do have varying rights in this country. I know you hate the idea, but our civilized country treats "illegals" as human beings, not some lower life form that is so popular to designate them with...

No one wants them executed or tortured. They are here illegally so we just want to point to the door to Mexico and tell them politely to leave. A town making laws that hiring or renting to illegals would be illegal doesn't seem that bad to me Kind of makes sense really.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

A town making laws that hiring or renting to illegals would be illegal doesn't seem that bad to me Kind of makes sense really.

Sorry, isn't that simple. As early as 1941, the Supreme Court in Hines v. Davidowitz found that the federal government has exclusive power to regulate immigration law, and states cannot have laws which even complement federal immigration law. Pennsylvania tried to require aliens to register with the state, carry a registration card and pay a small fee. The court didn't allow for it and said it was preempted by federal law. Other cases that followed said the same thing.

So it seems that states passing immigration laws is a very messy thing. While people here are calling for the judge who issued the temporary restraining order to be disbarred, he very well may have had no choice, given the harm these regs might cause and it being so doubtful that state immigration regs are legal. And that doesn't even take into account the procedural due process problems of shutting down businesses and throwing people out onto the street.

The ironing of all this is that Republicans may benefit from it. The federal government, completely controlled by Republicans, knows full well that it is they, and they alone, who can deal with America's immigration problems. For whatever reason, they've refused. Now states are trying to step in when the federal republicans have failed, knowing the states will also fail, and the twisted result is this-- joe six pack will LIKE republicans more because he'll see the immigration problem as trying to be fixed by state republicans, but it's those liberal activist judges who are preventing it from being fixed. In reality, it's the federal republicans sitting on their asses doing nothing that are the cause of all this. And they KNOW the little guy is too ignorant of legal history to realize the power is COMPLETELY in the hands of federal republicans to fix this...those federal republicans know the blame will be diverted to judges, when it's really their fault.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

What sweeping change? I see a few small towns and small cities are making changes. Make it so illegals can't get a job or place to live and hopefully they will go home and try to come in legally.

Right and if this were to become an nationwide trend with the drop of a few gavels we would have utter chaos across the country.

Im not in disagreement with immigration reform, and I truly believe employers should be held accountable. But the reality of this kind of trend sweeping the country simply isnt practicle and will lead to more problems than it will solve. It has taken many year for immigration to become a national issue, it will take many years to fix the issue.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Illegals do have varying rights in this country. I know you hate the idea, but our civilized country treats "illegals" as human beings, not some lower life form that is so popular to designate them with...

I don't hate the idea of them having human fundamental rights. But those rights do not include moving into another country illegally, and then getting tax dollars that do not belong to them.

It's not a "lower life form" issue. It's an illegal issue. They are not here within the law, and I don't care how long they have been here, or how much money they have been paid under the table, or how many kids they have had here...they broke the law. And the law is simple. If you want to immigrate here, get your papers. If you don't like the way we want you to get papers, then wait for us to change it or deal with it.