Being Poor is NOT a Crime - Page 9

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-03-2006, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

And who the fuck says what I am arguing has anything to do with Libertarianism.

Get your "schools of thought" straight.

What else would you call advocating doing away with any and all government regulation?

7960 · 11-03-2006, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

There are firms that already ceritify products OUTSIDE of the government

But up to now you've been arguing against licensing of everything but pilots.

Operations like Consumer Reports would become more important.

Which would be good, until they begin favoring a product, manufacturer, company, etc...which they do now. You think it won't get worse in your world?

Ingorance is not an excuse to not properly examine something.

I walked to a party. It started raining so I don't feel like walking home and plan to catch a cab.

You think it's ok for me to hail one, ask the guy for his name/information, google to see if his company is OK, then google to see if he (as an individual) knows the laws of the road.

Asinine.

hsmith · 11-03-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

What else would you call advocating doing away with any and all government regulation?

Anarchocapitalist

hsmith · 11-03-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Other than saying libertarians tend to be ugly I haven't mentioned them in this thread.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-03-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

Anarchocapitalist

Which is a subset of libertarian.

hsmith · 11-03-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

But up to now you've been arguing against licensing of everything but pilots.
Which would be good, until they begin favoring a product, manufacturer, company, etc...which they do now. You think it won't get worse in your world?
I walked to a party. It started raining so I don't feel like walking home and plan to catch a cab.

You think it's ok for me to hail one, ask the guy for his name/information, google to see if his company is OK, then google to see if he (as an individual) knows the laws of the road.

Asinine.

What does third party ceritication have to do with government licensing?

Do you know who came up with regulations in the first place? Here is a hint: It wasn't independent parties.

hsmith · 11-03-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Which is a subset of libertarian.

No

lew · 11-03-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Which is a subset of libertarian.

No. While similiar, they are different. More so than just a subset of one another.

Publius · 11-03-2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Which is a subset of libertarian.

That's like saying socialism is a subset of democrat.

Scrum · 11-03-2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

You think it's ok for me to hail one, ask the guy for his name/information, google to see if his company is OK, then google to see if he (as an individual) knows the laws of the road.

Asinine.

I was thinking about this earlier along those same lines.

Under what they are proposing, you would have to research every company that sells a product you may buy in a grocery store. And even further you would have to research every company that company uses for things like freight hauling. You could be buying tomatos from a company that saves a few bucks by shipping with a massive polluter who ignores the environment for profit, but unless you researched exattally who your tomato company was using for shipping you would never know. Now multiply that by 30 or so for every product you buy.

This is just one example, but think of the webs of money out there going on between companies.

lew · 11-03-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I was thinking about this earlier along those same lines.

Under what they are proposing, you would have to research every company that sells a product you may buy in a grocery store. And even further you would have to research every company that company uses for things like freight hauling. You could be buying tomatos from a company that saves a few bucks by shipping with a massive polluter who ignores the environment for profit, but unless you researched exattally who your tomato company was using for shipping you would never know. Now multiply that by 30 or so for every product you buy.

This is just one example, but think of the webs of money out there going on between companies.

You wouldn't have to research ANYTHING. There would be organizations out there that would certify products and such. Stores wouldn't carry products not certified. It's not some chaotic world you people are imagining.

Ardentfrost · 11-03-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I was thinking about this earlier along those same lines.

Under what they are proposing, you would have to research every company that sells a product you may buy in a grocery store. And even further you would have to research every company that company uses for things like freight hauling. You could be buying tomatos from a company that saves a few bucks by shipping with a massive polluter who ignores the environment for profit, but unless you researched exattally who your tomato company was using for shipping you would never know. Now multiply that by 30 or so for every product you buy.

This is just one example, but think of the webs of money out there going on between companies.

Most of the "good" products would be found out by the stores who sell products. Regular people wouldn't have to research every product, just find a shop you trust. There could be Green Shops or Organic Shops (or just Organic Sections, like there are now which you can buy from if you don't like regular methods).

It's not as much of a change as you'd like to think. It already happens.

Scrum · 11-03-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by lew

You wouldn't have to research ANYTHING. There would be organizations out there that would certify products and such. Stores wouldn't carry products not certified. It's not some chaotic world you people are imagining.

And what keeps those organizations from being paid?

Scrum · 11-03-2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Most of the "good" products would be found out by the stores who sell products. Regular people wouldn't have to research every product, just find a shop you trust. There could be Green Shops or Organic Shops (or just Organic Sections, like there are now which you can buy from if you don't like regular methods).

It's not as much of a change as you'd like to think. It already happens.

But in the free market, how many people are really going to care that the company who sells them cheap tomatos uses a company that pollutes horribly for their shipping?

They want their cheap tomatos.

Ardentfrost · 11-03-2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And what keeps those organizations from being paid?

redundancy. Like movie critics. Do you believe Ebert and Ropert? b/c I don't. I trust more websites like rottentomatoes that has mostly user reviews.

Publius · 11-03-2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And what keeps those organizations from being paid?

What keeps the Federal regulatory agencies from being paid? Oh yea, nothing. Enough lobbying money gets anything authorized. The difference is, if an agency has a history of licensing/authorizing unsafe products they'll start to lose money because their license will become a stigma instead of an aid to businesses trying to sell their product.

Ardentfrost · 11-03-2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

But in the free market, how many people are really going to care that the company who sells them cheap tomatos uses a company that pollutes horribly for their shipping?

They want their cheap tomatos.

the people who want cheap tomatos will get cheap tomatos. But think of the groups that currently protest certain organizations for various reasons. They're trying to get information in the hands of the consumers. Mostly, right now, even of those groups are correct, people say "well, the gov't says it's ok, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do it... plus, they sell their product cheap, so these guys are obviously just extremists." Without that regulation to fall back on, I think groups like that could actually be more viable.

I mean, I don't think it should happen all at once, but a slow movement in that direction to give the market time to compensate is a good idea in my opinion. Most people (and it seems like this is what you're doing too) look at it like "what if everything changed overnight" but that is unreasonable, even for my more idylic views

7960 · 11-03-2006, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And what keeps those organizations from being paid?

:yep:

Consumer reports isn't impartial. I forgot what product it was but it had something to do with SUVs....they were not impartial like they said they'd be. I guess maybe we need a 4th party to investigate the 3rd party certification companies to make sure they're truly impartial

Or, maybe in some cases an uninterested govt agency is the answer. They have no skin in the game so they're more likely to be impartial.

BTW, I have no problem with the AMA certifying doctors and I don't believe they're a govt entity. I'm not against non-govt certification. But I'm not against it, either, just for the sake of fighting "the machine."

Publius · 11-03-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Or, maybe in some cases an uninterested govt agency is the answer. They have no skin in the game so they're more likely to be impartial.

Please, show me an uninterested government agency.

Ardentfrost · 11-03-2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

:yep:

Consumer reports isn't impartial. I forgot what product it was but it had something to do with SUVs....they were not impartial like they said they'd be. I guess maybe we need a 4th party to investigate the 3rd party certification companies to make sure they're truly impartial

Or, maybe in some cases an uninterested govt agency is the answer. They have no skin in the game so they're more likely to be impartial.

BTW, I have no problem with the AMA certifying doctors and I don't believe they're a govt entity. I'm not against non-govt certification. But I'm not against it, either, just for the sake of fighting "the machine."

I'm completely ok with a centralized place for information gathering. IE. if a pill promised to cure you of cancer is just sucrose, a gov't group that keeps track of that is fine by me. As long as they don't tell the company what they can and cannot do (or give any opinions on the matter).