Does Iraq need a Saddam - Page 2

Diamond Cross · 11-10-2006, 12:13 AM

Read the constitution. And if fifteen million Iraqis voted, even against the wishes of President Bush, how can they not want a democracy? That's more than half of the entire populations, which is unheard of in America where there is such apathy for the vote that only a third of the American people vote. And those numbers are getting smaller.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 11-10-2006, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Democracy can work there. In the elections, fifteen million Iraqis voted. In comparison, that's more than half of the population to a third of Americans voting.

So yes, a democracy can work there.

Voting does not mean that democracy will work. Voting simply means the people are voicing their opinions, which could be very undemocratic. For all you know, the majority of Iraqis could want Sharia law and to elect a de facto dictator.

Diamond Cross · 11-10-2006, 01:59 AM

You might as well lay the same criticism on America. Benjamin Franklin once said "The last act of any democracy is to elec a dictatgor."

And that's the very definition of democracy, that the vote is an expression of people's opinions, is it not?

Anyway, here is some info on what the new upcoming elections are:
Iraqi Elections – 15 December

On December 15, the Iraqi people will elect a council of representatives who will serve a four year term in government.

The Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq (IECI) has registered 307 political entities and 19 coalitions to contest the 275 seats available in the council of representatives. Many of these political entities have grouped together and formed coalitions in order to gain the strategic benefits of working together. Many of Iraq’s political parties are based around either religion or ethnicity and, as such, we are likely to see voting patterns that mirror the demographics of the country.
With regard to ethnicity, the population of Iraq is 75-80% Arab, 15-20% Kurdish and 3-5% Turkoman, Assyrian or other. Of the total population 95% are Muslim, with Shi’a representing 66% and Sunnis 29%, the remaining 5% are Christian or Other. With these facts in mind, it is likely that the Shi’a parties will form a majority in an Iraqi government followed by the Sunni and Kurdish parties respectively. This potential outcome has led many Sunni Muslims to be fearful for the protection of their rights, as tension and animosity between the Shi’a and Sunni communities spills over into the political realm.

Rest of the article here:

Iraq Elections

Kytro · 11-12-2006, 06:10 PM

Another reason I don't particularly like democracy. Opinions are not equal, some are better or more correct than others.

This applies just as much when voting. Just because everyone believes or wants something does not make it true, or a good idea.

Rouger2 · 11-17-2006, 05:24 PM

This problem of sunnis and the shites and the kurds getting along has been the problem from the beginning and people just seemed to assume that with democracy they will get a along. Not much thought or real effort has been spent trying to work out if it is even possible for them to get along. Democracy is the best government there is, after all what are the other choices royalties or dictatorships. but it can't create miracles. People who are very serious and passionate about their religion do not change and muslims are for sure. The American founding fathers knew about that because of the hundreds of years of brutal conflict between the Catholics and Protestants in Europe so they put the seperation of church and state in the constitution.

Diamond Cross · 11-17-2006, 09:17 PM

YEah, Republicans and Democrats won't overcome their differences and try to work for a better America, let alone the Sunnis and Shites. If America's major parties squabble like little children on a playground over who gets the candy, how can we hope to get those two groups to overcome theirs?

People learn best by example.

JaJae · 11-17-2006, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

This problem of sunnis and the shites and the kurds getting along has been the problem from the beginning and people just seemed to assume that with democracy they will get a along. Not much thought or real effort has been spent trying to work out if it is even possible for them to get along. Democracy is the best government there is, after all what are the other choices royalties or dictatorships. but it can't create miracles. People who are very serious and passionate about their religion do not change and muslims are for sure. The American founding fathers knew about that because of the hundreds of years of brutal conflict between the Catholics and Protestants in Europe so they put the seperation of church and state in the constitution.

You can't force Democracy on people. But once they have a hint of it some will want it. It's not just the issue of Democracy it's human rights and freedom. Every person deserves the chance to be free.

Diamond Cross · 11-17-2006, 09:56 PM

But it has been shown that the Iraqi people do want a Democracy.

JaJae · 11-17-2006, 09:59 PM

Yes, more people voted in Iraq than in America.. especially the female vote. The oppressed are essentially begging for their freedom right now. It's a natural human desire to yearn to be free.

Diamond Cross · 11-17-2006, 10:01 PM

I just hope all goes well in the upcoming elections.

Rouger2 · 11-18-2006, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

YEah, Republicans and Democrats won't overcome their differences and try to work for a better America, let alone the Sunnis and Shites. If America's major parties squabble like little children on a playground over who gets the candy, how can we hope to get those two groups to overcome theirs?

People learn best by example.

There is conflict and disagreement every where. It is how you resolve those differences that matters, or work with them if you have to.

Diamond Cross · 11-18-2006, 04:14 PM

Ah but in American politics, compromise is never a virtue.

Rouger2 · 11-19-2006, 06:24 PM

Not a virture to most, but always a necessity.

SICKGUY · 11-20-2006, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think they need a Saddam. But I do think they need time to become accustomed to a new way of life.

A new Saddam would seem to fix things in the short term, but looking at the broader scope of things is what we need to do, and that wouldn't be a good thing for the long term.

this is a society that has been a certain way for a LONG time. it will take generations, if ever at all, for a country like iraq could become a solid democracy.

SICKGUY · 11-20-2006, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Read the constitution. And if fifteen million Iraqis voted, even against the wishes of President Bush, how can they not want a democracy? That's more than half of the entire populations, which is unheard of in America where there is such apathy for the vote that only a third of the American people vote. And those numbers are getting smaller.

wanting something and making it reality are two very different things. iraqis dont want suddam, but they dont want americans either.

Rouger2 · 11-20-2006, 04:36 PM

Aw but there a plenty that are benefiting financially from the billions of dollors that we are spending over there. That is something that we difinately cannot afford. They are getting a number one infrastructure and ours is going to hell, from the electrical system to the high ways. That was something that I saw in Viet Nam. We left them with brand new paved highways through out their country and all those air bases and army instalations.