Israel Pulls Out of Hezbollah Stronghold

[motivez]

TYRE, Lebanon (AP) - Israeli troops pulled back from a key Lebanese border town Saturday where it battled Hezbollah for a week, claiming to have finished its mission after the bloodiest ground fight of the 18-day war. Israeli warplanes blasted bridges and demolished houses in southern Lebanon, killing seven people, including a woman and her five children.

Israeli missiles that landed near a Lebanese border post at the main Syria-Lebanon crossing closed the border for the first time in the conflict, police officials said.

The battle for the town of Bint Jbail has symbolized Israel's difficulty in pushing guerrillas back from the border, whether by air bombardment or ground assault. Hezbollah on Friday escalated its cross-border attacks, firing longer-range missiles deeper into Israel than ever before.

Lebanese civilians have born the brunt of the Israeli onslaught.

The woman and her children were crushed in their home by a strike outside the market town of Nabatiyeh, which also killed a man in a nearby house, Lebanese security officials said. In another southern town, six bodies were dug from the rubble of a house destroyed by a strike Friday, they said.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was returning to the Middle East to give Lebanese and Israeli leaders a refined U.S. package of proposals aimed at ending the violence and breaking Hezbollah's domination of the region along Israel's border.

The American peace plan included new provisions aimed at addressing some demands in a proposal put forward late Thursday by the Lebanese government - and reluctantly agreed to by Hezbollah.

Rice made a fueling stop in Doha, Qatar and praised the Lebanese proposals, the first from Beirut, saying they showed the young democracy could function.

"The most important thing that this does for the process is that it shows a Lebanese government that is functioning as a Lebanese government," Rice told reporters traveling with her. "That is in and of itself extremely important."

Rice plans to meet first with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem for talks on Saturday night, said Mark Regev, spokesman for Israel's Foreign Ministry. There was no immediate word for a stop in Beirut, but Rice's visit to Lebanon earlier in the week was announced at the last minute for security reasons.

The U.S. peace plan envisions the deployment of a U.N.-mandated multinational force that can provide stability in the region, according to a U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the discussions.

It also proposes: disarming Hezbollah and integrating the guerrilla force into the Lebanese army; Hezbollah's return of Israeli prisoners; and a buffer zone in southern Lebanon to put Hezbollah rockets out of range of Israel. And it seeks to address some demands from Lebanon: a commitment to resolve the status of a piece of land held by Israel and claimed by Lebanon; and the creation of an international reconstruction plan for Lebanon.

The United States is under increasing pressure to quickly find a way to end fighting sparked by Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers in a July 12 raid.

Israel's retaliation has spiraled into an all-out attempt to end the guerrillas' domination of south Lebanon. The fighting has killed hundreds, driven some 750,000 Lebanese from their homes, caused a humanitarian crisis - and brought some of the heaviest bombardment of Israel by rocket fire.

The Lebanese plan which Hezbollah signed on to calls for an international force in the south and the eventual disarming of the guerrillas. It falls short Israeli and U.S. demands, however, and there was skepticism Hezbollah would fully agree to an international force once the details are worked out.

Israeli Cabinet minister Avi Dichter said on Israel radio Saturday that it was unacceptable for Lebanon's government "to hide behind the claim that a terror organization is operating on their ground and they cannot stop it." He said Israel holds the government fully accountable for Hezbollah actions, and that "Lebanon is paying the full price these days."

Bombardment by Israeli forces and rocket fire from guerrillas was intense Saturday morning around Bint Jbail, Lebanese security officials said. In the afternoon, the Israeli military said its troops had withdrawn from the Hezbollah stronghold, saying that their mission was complete. The military did not say whether guerrillas remained holed up in the town.

Israeli troops launched their assault on Bint Jbail on July 23, entering some houses in heavy fighting.

Eighteen soldiers were killed in the battle - nine of them in Hezbollah ambushes Wednesday, the Israeli military's worst one-day loss of the campaign. On Friday, the army said seven of soldiers were wounded, one seriously, when Hezbollah attacked a ridge overlooking Bint Jbail and the nearby village of Maroun al-Ras.

On Saturday, military officials said the operation never intended to fully capture the town, but just to wear down Hezbollah forces.

Israel radio cited an unnamed high-ranking officer as saying 50 guerrillas were killed in the week of fighting and hundreds wounded, most of them from a special Hezbollah unit. Hezbollah has acknowledge the deaths of only 35 fighters in the entire campaign.

The officer also said Israeli soldiers entered a Hezbollah headquarters in Bint Jbail on Friday and seized weapons, maps and communications equipment.

Whatever Israel's intention, its the pull back from Bint Jbail could provide a propaganda boost for Hezbollah, whose radio and television have lauded guerrillas for their prowess and depicted them as slowing down the Israeli war machine.

The mainly Shiite town is symbolic for Hezbollah, earning the nickname "the capital of the resistance" for its vehement support for the Shiite guerrillas during the 1982-2000 Israeli occupation of the south.

Meanwhile, Israeli air raids destroyed the bridge over the Orontes river in the eastern Bekaa Valley and were targeting bridges in the south.

At least 458 Lebanese have been killed in the fighting, that broke out July 12 after Hezbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed one in a cross-border raid. The figure is based on a count Friday from the Health Ministry, based on the number of bodies in hospitals, plus Saturday's deaths outside Natabiyeh and Ain Arab. Some estimates range as high as 600 dead.

Thirty-three Israeli soldiers have died in fighting, and Hezbollah rocket attacks on northern Israel have killed 19 civilians, the Israeli army said. Israeli troops have killed about 200 Hezbollah guerrillas, the army said. Hezbollah has reported only 35 losses.

The United States, backed by Britain, has adopted a diplomatic stance not embraced by most allies, insisting that any cease-fire must come with conditions to address long-standing regional disputes. Many Europeans and Arab countries are increasing the pressure for an immediate cease-fire first.

There is general agreement an international force is needed in the south to end Hezbollah's decade-long free reign. Details about the force and its mandate are not resolved, but could be at the United Nations on Monday during a meeting called by President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Humanitarian aid continued to arrive by sea and by air, but was piling up in Beirut on Saturday. Because aid convoys fear Israeli bombardment, only a trickle has reached the war zone in south Lebanon, where tens of thousands of Lebanese are stranded with dwindling supplies of medicine, food, water and fuel.

Israeli strikes have come within hundreds of yards of the few truck convoys making their way south this week - though no trucks have been hit so far - said officials from the international Red Cross, U.N. and other agencies. Israel has promised safe passage for aid but on a convoy-by-convoy basis; often 72-hour notice is required, slowing the process, officials said.

Israel on Saturday rejected a U.N. request for a three-day cease-fire to get in supplies and allow civilians to leave the war zone.

Avi Pazner, an Israeli government spokesman, blamed Hezbollah for blocking aid convoys. But the top U.N. humanitarian coordinator in Lebanon, Mona Hammam, said convoys so far had encountered "no problems" from Hezbollah.

Seems like a pretty big loss, even if only in public relations, for Israel, no?

Hezbollah will be able to claim this as a military victory over the superpower in the reigon, and I'm sure that they will gain many more recruits because of this in the future.

I think the package put on the table is good, but I have my doubts as to whether or not it's going to actually work or solve anything, since from what I've heard from those I know in Lebanon, this was all about a prisoner exchange and wanting back some of the "political prisoners" that Israel is currently holding.

The land / farm area was most certainly a secondary objective, I doubt very seriously that Hezbollah expected the strength of the Israeli response.. and so I doubt they believed that would be a part of any package deal.

I also think that if they get too much of what they want they are going to believe that this tactic as far as capturing prisoners will have worked so well that it'll be repeated over and over.. and that will be bad news for innocent people in both Lebanon, and Israel.

[Thorgrim]

Even Fox News had conservative Robert Novak saying Hezbollah is winning and will continue to win

The Israeli Air Force has been shown to be ineffective, the army suffered ambush after ambush until they pulled out (should put to rest some of the IDF glorifying due to 1963) and refuse to commit because they know they'd face huge number of KIAs, and while Israel has a set military force and reserve, Hezbollah has 100x more shia males it can recruit from after its initial overwhelming success

[motivez]

They have a much larger recruiting pool than just Lebanon. There was a story about students in Iran volunteering to join to go fight in Lebanon.. I would guess that the sentiment in Syria is relatively similar among a fairly large group

[archangel003]

Integrating Hezbollah into the regular Lebanese Army?


Right.

[motivez]

Yeah. I don't think that's going to happen either.. why would they dismantle themselves after having such "success"?

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah. I don't think that's going to happen either.. why would they dismantle themselves after having such "success"?

Better question: Why would the Lebanese Army want Hezbollah in their ranks?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by archangel003

Better question: Why would the Lebanese Army want Hezbollah in their ranks?

They're a well trained fighting force, but other than that, I don't really know much about the Lebanese Army or how it's structured, etc..

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by archangel003

Better question: Why would the Lebanese Army want Hezbollah in their ranks?

Because Hezbollah has only defeated the IDF twice now? All the planes and long range shelling in the world can't ensure victory now a days. Look at us in Iraq. Whatever Hezbollah is doing right, the Lebanese Army should start doing it.

[archangel003]

Hezbollah is fighting the way the West needs to fight. Indiscriminately and brutally.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by archangel003

Hezbollah is fighting the way the West needs to fight. Indiscriminately and brutally.

Don't confuse "lobbing missiles" with "handing the IDF their asses in frontline combat." I again ask you to look at the number of civilians killed on both sides and let me know who looks to be more "indiscriminate."

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Don't confuse "lobbing missiles" with "handing the IDF their asses in frontline combat." I again ask you to look at the number of civilians killed on both sides and let me know who looks to be more "indiscriminate."

They're not civilians.

When you give money to Hezbollah, you become part of their apparatus. Their supporters are every bit as dangerous as the ones with guns in their hands. I'm glad they're dead.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by archangel003

They're not civilians.

When you give money to Hezbollah, you become part of their apparatus. Their supporters are every bit as dangerous as the ones with guns in their hands. I'm glad they're dead.

Yeah those kids seeking refuge in Tyre and trying to get north were real criminals!

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yeah those kids seeking refuge in Tyre and trying to get north were real criminals!

The money their parents spent on their Hezbollah schooling probably bought them rockets. Either way, you won't see me crying over their deaths. If the IDF drops leaflets and you stay, congratulations, you get to die.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by archangel003

They're not civilians.

When you give money to Hezbollah, you become part of their apparatus. Their supporters are every bit as dangerous as the ones with guns in their hands. I'm glad they're dead.

So the Jews shot in Seattle weren't civilians either if they donated to Israel defense right?

[motivez]

Do you think everyone has the means and opportunity to leave like getting on a Greyhound bus here?

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by motivez

Do you think everyone has the means and opportunity to leave like getting on a Greyhound bus here?

Israelis that don't have transportation did just fine getting to shelter.

I have the same sympathy for bombed Lebanese civilians that I have for Katrina "victims". None.

[motivez]

Give me a fucking break

You act like these people all have cars, or money for bus tickets, or enough stockpiled food and water to last them as they try to navigate their way north with 750,000 other people all scrambling to get out of there.

Your assine suggestion that the level of access to services, bomb shelters, food, water, is somehow the same in Lebanon as it is in Israel is equally ridiculous.

Pray tell, how many bridges and roads have been completely destroyed in Israel as a result of Hezbollah's rocket bombardments? Surely Israel destroying the major roads and means of "escape" for these civilians hasn't hampered their ability to get out. Right?

How many busses have been bombed by Hezbollah as the Israeli people fleed? Surely that didn't scare anyone away from trying to take what mass transportation was available.

Trying to compare this and Katrina is as pathetic as your understanding of the obstacles for civilians who want to get out but cannot.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by archangel003

They're not civilians.

When you give money to Hezbollah, you become part of their apparatus. Their supporters are every bit as dangerous as the ones with guns in their hands. I'm glad they're dead.

Same can be said of Israeli "civillians" they pay tax and support the Israeli army.