This is what happens when rhetoric gets out of control

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Thank God the OP doesn't blame JUST the right for stuff like this. I blame whatever school you went to for a lack of language abilities.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

"This is a direct result of the right's bullshit."

Could have fooled us all. We know what the OP implied as well as the lies the OP has spewed trying to dig himself out of a nice pile.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

Could have fooled us all. We know what the OP implied as well as the lies the OP has spewed trying to dig himself out of a nice pile.

Yeah, that's me...only...you have no idea what you're talking about. When you can find something other than one sentence...twisted and flipped in order to ignore the rest of my post...the article I posted...and all additional posts in this thread...

then you might have a point.

Until then, learn how to read the English language.

If I wanted to blame ONLY the right...my thread title would have blamed ONLY the right. If I wanted to blame ONLY the right...I would not mince words.

If you guys still can't understand, then fuck off.

[WickedLou9]

I didn't read the whole thread.. I think it's hard to blame this sort of act on people like Glen Beck and such. This guy was pretty clearly nuts. While I don't think the sort of hate filled intolerant vitriol that people like Hannity and Beck spew is helpful, probably even harmful, it's not the reason that this happened.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yeah, that's me...only...you have no idea what you're talking about. When you can find something other than one sentence...twisted and flipped in order to ignore the rest of my post...the article I posted...and all additional posts in this thread...

then you might have a point.

Until then, learn how to read the English language.

If I wanted to blame ONLY the right...my thread title would have blamed ONLY the right. If I wanted to blame ONLY the right...I would not mince words.

If you guys still can't understand, then fuck off.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

"This is a direct result of the right's bullshit."

[CharlieK]

All Donkey, and other dupes on the Collectivist Left have to do is go back and read some of the "cordial" rhetoric coming from both the Federalists and anti-Federalists if they wish to see 'out-of-hand' language.

Today, we are much more civil. The only problem is that most of us, including our resident Equus africanus asinus is almost totally ignorant of historical facts. All this hyper-ventilating from the Jackasses is comical. They are huffing and pugging, and attempting to inflate themselves beyond what is safe for them. Perhaps they will just explode and disappear?

[kinggovernor]

JANUARY 10, 2011 4:00 A.M.
The Most Cynical Campaign

The Tucson shooting was an unspeakable horror, a characteristic exercise in American democracy — a townhall meeting outside a Safeway store — interrupted by gunshots and bloodshed. The gunman targeted Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot through the head but survived, and killed six and wounded thirteen others. Any time someone attempts to assassinate a public official it is an attack on the entire country, and the Tucson shooting has been appropriately treated as such by politicians across the political spectrum.

We barely knew all the facts in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, though, before this vicious act was being milked for political advantage by ghoulish opportunists on the Left. Their argument was that the suspect, Jared Loughner, was effectively sent from the Tea Party. Paul Krugman rushed to his keyboard to say, “We don’t have proof yet that this was political, but the odds are that it was.” Liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas blamed Sarah Palin because she included Giffords’s district on a map with crosshairs denoting Democrats she wanted to see defeated. Keith Olbermann called for Palin to be drummed from public life unless she repents of her role in the tragedy. Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik blamed “the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,” and called his state “the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry” — apparently for the offense of enforcing immigration laws. And so on.
The irony of criticizing the overheated rhetoric of your opponents at the same time you call them accomplices to murder apparently was lost on these people, most of whom have never been noted for their subtlety (or civility). It is vile to attempt to tar the opposition with the crimes of a lunatic so as to render illegitimate the views of about half of America.

Jared Loughner is clearly deranged, his fevered mind drawn to irrational extremes, whether those of Adolf Hitler or Karl Marx. He was anti-government the way paranoiacs who think the government is controlling their minds are anti-government — think John Nash, not Milton Friedman. Like the Virginia Tech shooter, Loughner had behaved bizarrely around his fellow students, frightening them. One former high-school classmate remembers him as a liberal, yet given what we’ve learned so far about his ravings, it is doubtful Loughner’s disordered mind was capable of a holding a coherent ideology.

That doesn’t stop the Left from arguing that he was basically taking his cues from a map on Sarah Palin’s Facebook page. About that map: Martial imagery has been central to American politics for more than a century. Why do Palin’s critics think we say “campaign” or “rank-and-file”? We all use language of this sort, and no one ever before has thought it constitutes incitement.

That said, all of us have an obligation to speak with truth and charity in making our political arguments. Not because hateful talk will drive the mentally ill to criminal acts, but because civility is a good in its own right. We could always use more of it, but it’s not true that this is an unprecedentedly vitriolic time in American politics. The signature chant of the Vietnam protesters still lionized by the Left, “Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?” is worse than most everything you hear on the airwaves today. Nonetheless, if we all can endeavor to be more civil, a place to start is to not to try to score gross political points off the heinous act of a disturbed individual.

Our prayers are with Rep. Giffords, everyone wounded in the attack, and the families of those who were slain.

The Most Cynical Campaign - The Editors - National Review Online

[Salty Dog]

David Gergen

(CNN) -- Until we have more definitive information about the shooter, pointing fingers at who might bear responsibility for the Tucson, Arizona, massacre only contributes to what we must end in America: a toxic political environment.

Soon after the news broke, the internet lit up with accusations, even before we knew anything at all about the man who pulled the trigger. Much of the early commentary, especially from the left, blamed the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, etc. for employing a rhetoric of militarism and creating a climate of hate.

Commentators from the right soon retaliated, arguing that the left was just as guilty of rhetorical excess and through bad governance, had inspired a citizen revolt. As of this hour, we have a country that is not only deeply saddened but even more divided than we were before the shooting.

We can do better -- a lot better.

My experience in government is that typically, a lot of what we think we know in the first hours of a calamitous event turns out to be wrong. In the White House Situation Room just after President Reagan was shot, we were first informed that press secretary Jim Brady had died; we said a prayer. Later we learned that he had miraculously survived; we said another prayer. It took even more time to figure out whether the would-be assassin John Hinckley was a loner or what his motivations were. Even now we are still unsure about what prompted his madness.

As a young man, I was struck by how quickly, after Lee Harvey Oswald had murdered President Kennedy, speculation centered on whether Oswald was acting on behalf of the right-wing John Birch Society. Instead, we learned that he was tied to Fidel Castro.

This is not a moment to point fingers and make accusations. But it is a time to pray for the victims...

The country would be well served now if we cooled the accusations until we learn more about the man police are holding in Tucson, Jared Loughner. He appears to be mentally unhinged, someone who has threatened others. Why he targeted one of the most admired and popular political leaders in Arizona is unclear.

None of this is to excuse the climate of hatred that has built up in the United States over our politics and our politicians. Its origins go back a long time, but it has undeniably grown worse in recent years -- during the George W. Bush years, when the left was intensely alienated, and now during the Obama years, when the right has become vitriolic.

During the 2008 campaign, many of us in the "commentariat," including me, openly worried that occasional calls for violence at Palin rallies would lead to bloodshed. To his credit, Sen. John McCain eventually stepped in and called a halt. Since Obama's inauguration, there have been many signs that threats to public officials have been rising.

All of this should be the subject of renewed "soul-searching", as Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik called for in the midst of the carnage. So should the continued, easy access to guns in this country -- something we have fretted about for years but haven't resolved. How can it be that a young man with so many signs of derangement as Loughner could purchase a very dangerous 9 mm Glock handgun less than a month ago -- and legally?

Too many times in our history, assassins have struck down our leaders with guns. Four presidents have died at the hands of gunmen -- Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy. Four other presidents have narrowly escaped -- FDR, Truman, Ford and Reagan. Gunmen have also taken the lives of some who have served in Congress.

And now we have Gabrielle Giffords, apparently the first female member of Congress who has been shot, courageously fighting for her life. Six others are dead. This is not a moment to point fingers and make accusations. But it is a time to pray for the victims -- and to pledge to each other that we will struggle for a more civil and decent America.


No time for finger-pointing - CNN.com

[Donkey®]

It's not time for finger pointing but it is time to stop with the vicious nonsense that goes back and forth on BOTH SIDES.

That's the point. Do I think the right is worse? Yes. They use words and imagery that have more 'violent' undertones IN MY OPINION. But by no means are the ALONE in the rhetoric games.


Is this clear enough for you idiots that can't understand simple meaning in forum posts?



Here are some examples:


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...itical-rh.html

Originally Posted by article

On June 23, 2008, then-candidate Obama warned Democratic donors that the campaign could get ugly. During a Philadelphia fundraiser, Obama riffed off of the mob drama "The Untouchables," saying, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun ... Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans."

Sen. John McCain's (R-Ariz.) campaign immediately pouned on the statement. Then-campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said, "Barack Obama's call for 'new politics' is officially over."




Republican Senate candidate Sharron Angle floats the possibility of armed insurrection in January 2010, during her campaign to unseat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.):
"You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second
Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.
I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this
Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."



John Boehner issues a warning to Rep. Steve Driehaus in March 2010, saying that he and other pro-life Democrats who voted in favor of the health-care overhaul legislation may find themselves in trouble saying, "He may be a dead man. He can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati. The Catholics will run him out of town." The quote appeared in a March 18, 2010 article in the National Review Online.





Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) called on Minnesota constituents to be "armed and dangerous" in the energy-tax debate, during a March 20, 2010 interview:

"I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us, having a revolution every now and then is a good thing, and the people — we the people —
are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country. And I think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States."



Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin tweets on March 23, 2010 to "common sense conservatives" and "lovers of America" -- "Don't retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"


Alabama Republican Congressional candidate Rick Barber released an ad in June 2010 to rally fellow tea party supporters. In the ad, an actor portraying President George Washington tells Barber to "gather your armies."

Both sides engaged in unnecessary rhetoric.

[CharlieK]

I say again,...............today's rhetoric is tame by comparison to the time of the Founding. You folks are not using history to judge things.

And quit blaming the ones using the First Amendment. Instead, blame the one doing the shooting. I believe he is the one responsible for his actions, not the Sarah Palins of this world.

Of course I don't have any credibility, right.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by CharlieK

I say again,...............today's rhetoric is tame by comparison to the time of the Founding. You folks are not using history to judge things.

And quit blaming the ones using the First Amendment. Instead, blame the one doing the shooting. I believe he is the one responsible for his actions, not the Sarah Palins of this world.

Of course I don't have any credibility, right.

And you can repeat it again because rhetoric in those days doesn't fly at the speed of light on Twitter/Facebook/CNN/FOX.

You can't compare such things.

[The Great Catpiss]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It's not time for finger pointing but it is time to stop with the vicious nonsense that goes back and forth on BOTH SIDES.

You state it is not time for finger pointing, and the start pointing fingers. Then you point fingers at the nonsense that goes back and forth. Why not wait for the facts instead of being so inconsiderate after such a tragic event? Maybe he was influenced by rap music, or a crazy uncle. It is quite inconsiderate to bring this event up in such a manner.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That's the point. Do I think the right is worse? Yes. They use words and imagery that have more 'violent' undertones IN MY OPINION. But by no means are the ALONE in the rhetoric games..

...This is a direct result of the right's bullshit...

If the undertones were so violent, why doesn't this happen much more frequently? What about the mind control? How does mind control play into this?

Why bring that up at all right now? It seems quite inconsiderate. If he was a democrat, then how could the republicans influence him to kill one of his own?

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Is this clear enough for you idiots that can't understand simple meaning in forum posts?

Insulting the forum again?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by The Great Catpiss

You state it is not time for finger pointing, and the start pointing fingers. Then you point fingers at the nonsense that goes back and forth. Why not wait for the facts instead of being so inconsiderate after such a tragic event? Maybe he was influenced by rap music, or a crazy uncle. It is quite inconsiderate to bring this event up in such a manner.


If the undertones were so violent, why doesn't this happen much more frequently? What about the mind control? How does mind control play into this?

Why bring that up at all right now? It seems quite inconsiderate. If he was a democrat, then how could the republicans influence him to kill one of his own?


Insulting the forum again?

If this is the first time I have EVER said I was tired of the back and forth...you may have a point. But this has been bothering me for years and the fact that this incident is the "only time" is irrelevant. Even if they are completely unrelated, I think it's a good thing to have everyone step back and tone their shit down...especially the right.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This is a direct result of the right's bullshit. The same bullshit they claim not to condone. "take the country back" and "secession" talk only instigates unstable people to do unstable things.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It's not time for finger pointing

what a fucking joke

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

what a fucking joke

What's a fucking joke is you and your friends ignoring everything else I type in a thread so you can harp on some fantasy. Carry on douches.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What's a fucking joke is you and your friends ignoring everything else I type in a thread so you can harp on some fantasy. Carry on douches.

You jumped to conclusions and you were wrong, no need for the insults. You took the liberal blog/NYT talking points and ran with it, maybe you should think for yourself next time.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

You jumped to conclusions and you were wrong, no need for the insults. You took the liberal blog/NYT talking points and ran with it, maybe you should think for yourself next time.

This is a direct result of the right's bullshit. The same bullshit they claim not to condone. "take the country back" and "secession" talk only instigates unstable people to do unstable things. You can claim the right isn't doing anything the left isn't...but there's been an obvious difference between the two sides since the Tea Baggers came about.

To claim otherwise is weak.

[The Esteemed Gentleman]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This is a direct result of the right's bullshit.... "take the country back" and "secession" talk only instigates unstable people to do unstable things.

The first time I remember hearing the phrase "take our country back" it was used by left-wingers upset about GWB being alive. I remember thinking "Take it back from what?"

By the way, there are just as many left-wing secession groups out there as right-wing. Vermont's is a great example.

The fact is unstable people do unstable things because they are unstable. Blaming political rhetoric is nothing but an attempt to score political points. It'd be like if people tried to blame Jody Foster for the attempt on Reagan's life if she had given interviews discussing her dislike or Reagan's policies and want of a husband.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by The Esteemed Gentleman

The first time I remember hearing the phrase "take our country back" it was used by left-wingers upset about GWB being alive. I remember thinking "Take it back from what?"

By the way, there are just as many left-wing secession groups out there as right-wing. Vermont's is a great example.

The fact is unstable people do unstable things because they are unstable. Blaming political rhetoric is nothing but an attempt to score political points. It'd be like if people tried to blame Jody Foster for the attempt on Reagan's life if she had given interviews discussing her dislike or Reagan's policies and want of a husband.

And I understand this. The rhetoric is from BOTH sides. I PERSONALLY think the rhetoric from the right at this time is more hateful and dangerous...but of course...that's just my opinion.


This guy is a nutjob. I am not claiming the right's rhetoric was the cause for HIM to pull the trigger. What I am claiming is the right has ratcheted up the rhetoric since Obama came into office and it has made the situation ridiculous. They are to blame for where we are today with the words back and forth. Again, my opinion but there's plenty of evidence to support it.


And people should be calling for the rhetoric to dissipate because it's at ridiculous levels at present time and it completely turns people off from actually focusing on the issues of the day in a stable manner. Nobody hears Rush saying "hey, let's look at the healthcare situation from both sides" it's "OMG DEATHPANELS!!!!" It's stupid.

[illavbill]

I don't understand you guys on the right. IMO the political rhetoric has gotten out of control. Calling for second amendment remedies etc. Who is to blame for this shit? The crazy ass kid who shot everybody up. HOWEVER, if you listened to and believed the news stations you'd think our president is a secret Muslim plant from another country that wants to destroy America, steal everybody's money, enslave white people blah blah blah. You'd also believe the country was full of fucking commies, socialists, nazis and whatever the hell else is shit out on the airwaves. Everybody is so quick to shit on Donkey and us "dupes" (yeah f you Charlie & you other ass hats that do nothing but insult and instigate shit about the left on this site with every post, while literally saying you're better and smarter than everybody else.) on the left when. Crap like this happens because of bullshit and irresponsible rhetoric from politicians and their followers period. The right & Teabaggers have a large part to do with the hatred spewing as of the last few years. Hell, the right-wingers that get media attention now have me wishing for bush to be the extreme right.

Who knows what this kid's reasons for doing this were, but no matter what his political affiliation or if it had shit to do with this shooting at all, shit needs to be TONED THE F DOWN in America. Look at this board as of late, we've been inundated with people that think anybody that isn't extreme right literally is dangerous to America.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I am not claiming the right's rhetoric was the cause for HIM to pull the trigger.

Originally Posted by Donkey quoting an article about the Loughner shooting

This is a direct result of the right's bullshit.

No offense, but that is not is not the way your posts read. It clearly reads that you blame the GOP for it. You kinda admit the left does it as well, but you consider it to not be as bad so therefore it is the "direct result" of Republican rhetoric. These are your words. What you meant to say, what you wish you said, and what you did say are three different things. All we have to go by is the latter.